Im gonna say yes, but well see what you think about it. The player was really active we were 5 handed, one away from the ft. Blinds were 2/4k. The villain was 36/36 over 10 hands and just got done playing 2 large pots with out going to showdown.

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $4,000(BB) Replayer
SB ($103,415)
Hero ($70,145)
UTG ($149,579)
CO ($350,199)
BTN ($108,250)

Dealt to Hero A 8

fold, CO raises to $8,888, fold, fold, Hero raises to $65,345, CO calls $56,457

FLOP ($134,690) J 4 8

TURN ($134,690) J 4 8 6

RIVER ($134,690) J 4 8 6 A

Hero shows A 8
(Pre 46%, Flop 1.9%, Turn 0.0%)

CO shows 4 4
(Pre 54%, Flop 98.1%, Turn 100.0%)

CO wins $134,690

To answer your question, yes, I find it spewy, but not by a lot though. You got almost 18 big blinds which is too big of a 3bet shove in this situation IMO. I prolly folding here, and instead 3betting ATs+* in this situation against this guy.

*Maybe with the intention of getting it in, this could however also be spewy, would like to hear what others think about this.

Fine against his opening range imo, he has a big stack and he's in cutoff - his range is huge. He should also think you're not shoving too light because the FT bubble, really don't like his call.

Ez 3b ship. Nits gonna nit

Isn't too spewy, but I don't think your fold equity is large here. It only costs him roughly 20% of his stack to take a coinflip making this call, so I don't hate his call.

You are ahead of his range and make the right play by putting him to the decision, you just lost a race. Better luck next time.

It's a coin flip at best for him, he's crushed a large percentage of the time.

Agreed. Only other thing I would add about situation/opponents like this one is don't fight fire with fire.

NH. Ax makes a great hand to 3b ship here. The A blocker reduces the chances dramatically of the only hand that totally crushes you when you are called (AA). No matter what calls you you will still have about 30% with the A blocker. Additionally, your fold equity there should be high.

You have to jump on spots like this in MTTs with 17BBs. Having a LAG open from late position you can pretty much do this with ATC and show a profit, let alone having a hand that will have equity against anything that calls you. sure, you can get better hands to do this with, but you can't always wait for the good hands to match up with the great spots. Sometimes you just have to take what is given to you. This is a great spot with a good enough hand to take the spot profitably.

Seems fine given info on villian. Your also the shorty at you table so you have to do something soon to build your stack, and if this guys trying to be table captain then your likely not to find to many spots to open-steal pre.

Even though you prefer villian to fold you're still ahead of a good chunk of his calling range (based on what he called you with in this hand).

fine

Hey,

This isn't too bad. It's close between a fold and an all in in my opinion with your 18BB's. I would probably shove too. His range is almost any two cards with a stack like that. His call with 44 is terrible. He's hoping at best to be racing. So no not really a spewy shove 5 handed against the big stack.

petesgotaces

beyond fine, its the ft bubble his range is epic here. NH

3b jam or fold. I'm jamming like 22+,Ax+,K9s+,KTo+,QTs+,QJo+,JTs... maybe Q9s/J9s/9Ts too.. Its actually a pretty tight range against this sort of villain, but I like to be ahead as much as possible.. Against a pretty tight opening range I put in stove for villain (~40%).. This range gives you 54% equity..

I believe villain is r/c pretty much anything under 20 bigs with whatever he is opening.. That's why I think 3b nominally here is bad, Degnovic.. It really serves no purpose when he is calling our jam pretty light here.

I like to shove there somthing like 33+,A4s+,KTs+,QJs,A8o+,KJo+

I don't really agree with anyone!

-> Villain is getting almost 1.5 to 1 on a call, and losing doesn't hurt villain so much, so villain's call is not at all bad.

-> Since we're usually getting called, that means we need a pretty good hand to shove. A8o is not a very good hand.

-> ICM considerations alone should incline us to be nitty here. I don't know what the payout structure is like, and that's really important to our decision, but busting one spot from final tables is usually just awful.

-> What is everyone basing their reads on? Everyone seems to think this player is superlaggy, and the only comment about villain is that "villain was 36/36 over 10 hands". We're basing a read on 10 hands? (And as an aside, how can anyone be 36/36 on 10 hands - 36% of 10 is not a whole number. ). If the 36 means this is villain's 4th raise in 11 hands, well that's not completely crazy at all.

I'd be much happier folding here, and waiting for spots when I can be first to open a pot. At this point of a tournament I want to find lower risk spots to win chips.

I don't agree at all, he's raising into two 25bb stacks - he definitely has a raise/fold range here.

I think its safe to assume this opponent is opening very wide here given the small hand sample and the fact hes the biggest stack 5 handed at the final table bubble and on the cut off, most players are going to get very agg and loose in this spot. We probably arent going to get very many spots to open for the blinds here and we are getting very low, i like this play we need to get that stack up.

sweet.. I'd like to hear more on how others approach this situation.


I didn't say he didn't have a r/f range here.. I said he will probably r/c under 20 and r/f to the bigger stacks.. I'm also one of those who thinks its def a shove.

Any good player already knows who's shoves they're calling when they open that spot.. I do it every time, and I'm not that good.. And I would also r/c hero's stack with 44 here and fold to the bigger stacks..

Obv the hand is pretty std, considering we likely have an aggressive opener, and we wanna open our shoving range to combat it.. FT bubble only gives us more FE imo.

A good player in this spot realizes it is bad to r/f a 17BB stack. However, I have to say that sometimes when good players look at a hand they loo at it through good player shades and it obscures their thinking.

I just had this conversation on another forum when players were eliminating hands from a range because a "good player would never have that." Well what evidence do we have this guy is a good player who knows to not have a r/f range here? This is still such a sweet spot to get because so many bad players still have r/f ranges here. That is why this resteal shove play is still so profitable. Good players and regs have adjusted to this move. The bad players have not.

Small sample size to say he's active.

I think considering its the FT bubble and your stack size I love the shove.

Unlucky mate

Not shoving would be pretty bad...nh

Not sure if shove is better than go and Go but I might be being results oriented.