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Sorel allegedly bottom dealing vs john racener Sorel allegedly bottom dealing vs john racener

02-19-2011 , 03:14 PM
I was told this story a few weeks ago I held off because I was busy and wanted to talk to sorel first and get his side of the story and I was really surprised by how he acted seemed very guilty to me and after I contacted him on FB he contacted john and based on what I was relayed that sorel said it admitted all guilt to me. I have some of the details wrong the story is semi long and I'm trying to get the general idea with some others but my.

So sorel and John during pca were doing lots of gambling towards the end of the trip sorel says lets play chinese and says we should also play with a joker. They also did some weird scoring when whoever won most pts/hands every 10 hands the winner gets 5k, sorel had tried to bump up the stakes a few times as well to might higher. So they are rotating the deal and the dealer gets the 14th card in 1 of their hands. Racener has played a ton of live poker so he tends to know procedure and what to look for. He notices sorels shuffling is leaving the 2 bottom cards in place they haven't moved from the deck. As he starts to deal he notices the first card he deals himself is the bottom card of the deck. He keeps watching sorel and once he's done dealing john says hes going take the hand with 14 cards in it sorel goes into a tantrum saying it's his hand his deal. John says I know what you were doing picks up the 14 card pile and shows the bottom card which is the joker. He tells sorel he's not paying him whatever amount hes down 5-20k and that he's a scumbag etc.

Sorel then makes up excuses why he cheated saying it was the prescription drugs he's on I think he also made the claim he had a family member die recently and it has him all ****ed up in the head. Sorel did his best to keep john quiet knowing full well if this came out people would start to wonder if he really beat other players for large numbers in chinese, who I will leave out of this post but they will now rethink when they played sorel. I am so ashamed I was beginning to like Sorel we had fun gambling at pca I thought he wasn't the guy I perceived online even with our history of me getting him banned we had a good time and I saw myself becoming friends with him this year.

Now I just think he's the scummiest poker player I've met. I know he got cheated big but that doesn't give him the right to go and cheat others to get that $ back he already had a huge edge on him in chinese the fact he had to go and cheat even more is just a shame. I really don't think anyone or any site should ever have anything to do with him. He clearly is here for the $ will **** anyone over for his $ and who knows who he has cheated in the past. Also want to add when I first told him I was telling this story he was like I'm busy playing ftops he was 1 tabling the 6max and he couldnt responsd I told him thread going up tonite or tom and I wanted to get his side first. He went back and forth wanted to call me I said I wanted a record of what he says so only email/fb I'd communicate like 10hours later this is the response I get.

"ok Deeb, i dont really know what to say, he says that I dealt myself a joker from the bottom of the deck when I didn't . People have done it b4 to me and they'll do it again, seems like every 2 months I have to defend myself vs some sort of accusation with no proof and im rly sick of it. I've been accused of just about everything, pretty sure if u said I was responsible for the 9/11 attacks a certain % of people would beleive u. The reality of it is if u post these accusations on 2p2 the majority of ppl will believe you over me, youo can say anything, im wide open and completely vulnerable to being accused of anything shady and having people believe it. Proof of this is in the fact that you auto assume I did this based on what John said without even talking to me first. I have a lot of enemies in the poker world and many people are out to get me. I guess that's the price I have to be for being in the infamy spotlight so often.. On 2p2 every poster is judge and jury and given the fact that most people don't believe a word i say , I have no chance of proving my innocence"

Overall a solid statement but if it was the truth why did it take him 7 hours after my first comment to make it a innocent man would just go off on those types of accusations calling the person involved and telling them that they are flat out wrong while sorel took the time in-between to tell john he'd kill himself if this got out. I dont know how many 2nd chances a guy gets but sorel is past his quota in my eyes I hope others agree with me he doesn't belong to be called a poker pro he's a cheat and a scumbag

Last edited by shaundeeb; 02-19-2011 at 03:46 PM. Reason: just changing raceners spelling at his request
02-19-2011 , 03:18 PM
Thanks for being so timely Shaun, the community greatly appreciates it!
02-19-2011 , 03:20 PM
John Racener is with FTP now, would be interesting if he'd come out publicly against Sorel as well. It's a small world we live in, that guys like Sorel and Men the Master continue to be treated as well as they do and get action is just absurd.

Also running this kind of angle is at least a hundred times scummier than playing on other player's accounts in MTTs.
02-19-2011 , 03:21 PM
hmmm


would be interesting to see how many people have played chinese with sorel for big amounts (and not dealt at a table with a dealer)
02-19-2011 , 03:21 PM
Shaun, did you think about the health of MTTc before making this thread?

I dunno if we can take all these threads full of bombs
02-19-2011 , 03:22 PM
seems about right
02-19-2011 , 03:29 PM
why does he feel the need to do **** like this :/

(if he's guilty......)
02-19-2011 , 03:30 PM
Hopefully Sorel can host the new FTOPS Chinese event after he gets Red Pro status.

Really absurd, definitely interested in the following things -

a) Before this incident, who played Sorel in Chinese and who lost big amounts?

b) Has anyone played Sorel after PCA in Chinese?

c) How does this scumbag still show his face in public?

BTW if I was Racener (or you shaun) I would've instantly outed him to prevent others from getting cheated/making people aware they've possibly been cheated in the past. I mean as far as I concerned if you've ever lost money to Sorel playing Chinese while he deals you should pretty much get all your money back you lost from him. I don't think this is unreasonable at all.
02-19-2011 , 03:30 PM
the word 'pathological' comes to mind.
02-19-2011 , 03:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaundeeb Sorel allegedly bottom dealing vs john racener
I was told this story a few weeks ago I held off because I was busy and wanted to talk to sorel first and get his side of the story and I was really surprised by how he acted seemed very guilty to me and after I contacted him on FB he contacted john and based on what I was relayed that sorel said it admitted all guilt to me. I have some of the details wrong the story is semi long and I'm trying to get the general idea with some others but my.

So sorel and John during pca were doing lots of gambling towards the end of the trip sorel says lets play chinese and says we should also play with a joker. They also did some weird scoring when whoever won most pts/hands every 10 hands the winner gets 5k, sorel had tried to bump up the stakes a few times as well to might higher. So they are rotating the deal and the dealer gets the 14th card in 1 of their hands. Racner has played a ton of live poker so he tends to know procedure and what to look for. He notices sorels shuffling is leaving the 2 bottom cards in place they haven't moved from the deck. As he starts to deal he notices the first card he deals himself is the bottom card of the deck. He keeps watching sorel and once he's done dealing john says hes going take the hand with 14 cards in it sorel goes into a tantrum saying it's his hand his deal. John says I know what you were doing picks up the 14 card pile and shows the bottom card which is the joker. He tells sorel he's not paying him whatever amount hes down 5-20k and that he's a scumbag etc.

Sorel then makes up excuses why he cheated saying it was the prescription drugs he's on I think he also made the claim he had a family member die recently and it has him all ****ed up in the head. Sorel did his best to keep john quiet knowing full well if this came out people would start to wonder if he really beat other players for large numbers in chinese, who I will leave out of this post but they will now rethink when they played sorel. I am so ashamed I was beginning to like Sorel we had fun gambling at pca I thought he wasn't the guy I perceived online even with our history of me getting him banned we had a good time and I saw myself becoming friends with him this year.

Now I just think he's the scummiest poker player I've met. I know he got cheated big but that doesn't give him the right to go and cheat others to get that $ back he already had a huge edge on him in chinese the fact he had to go and cheat even more is just a shame. I really don't think anyone or any site should ever have anything to do with him. He clearly is here for the $ will **** anyone over for his $ and who knows who he has cheated in the past. Also want to add when I first told him I was telling this story he was like I'm busy playing ftops he was 1 tabling the 6max and he couldnt responsd I told him thread going up tonite or tom and I wanted to get his side first. He went back and forth wanted to call me I said I wanted a record of what he says so only email/fb I'd communicate like 10hours later this is the response I get.

"ok Deeb, i dont really know what to say, he says that I dealt myself a joker from the bottom of the deck when I didn't . People have done it b4 to me and they'll do it again, seems like every 2 months I have to defend myself vs some sort of accusation with no proof and im rly sick of it. I've been accused of just about everything, pretty sure if u said I was responsible for the 9/11 attacks a certain % of people would beleive u. The reality of it is if u post these accusations on 2p2 the majority of ppl will believe you over me, youo can say anything, im wide open and completely vulnerable to being accused of anything shady and having people believe it. Proof of this is in the fact that you auto assume I did this based on what John said without even talking to me first. I have a lot of enemies in the poker world and many people are out to get me. I guess that's the price I have to be for being in the infamy spotlight so often.. On 2p2 every poster is judge and jury and given the fact that most people don't believe a word i say , I have no chance of proving my innocence"

Overall a solid statement but if it was the truth why did it take him 7 hours after my first comment to make it a innocent man would just go off on those types of accusations calling the person involved and telling them that they are flat out wrong while sorel took the time in-between to tell john he'd kill himself if this got out. I dont know how many 2nd chances a guy gets but sorel is past his quota in my eyes I hope others agree with me he doesn't belong to be called a poker pro he's a cheat and a scumbag
I think it's great that you shared this with the community, but you had better be pretty damn sure it's true to come out with it. The bolded part is essentially pop psychology -- it weakens your argument considerably.

If you have other more concrete proof, then please share it.
02-19-2011 , 03:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TT_fold Sorel allegedly bottom dealing vs john racener
I think it's great that you shared this with the community, but you had better be pretty damn sure it's true to come out with it. The bolded part is essentially pop psychology -- it weakens your argument considerably.

If you have other more concrete proof, then please share it.
+1
02-19-2011 , 03:34 PM
Can somebody summarize what else this guy has been accused of? Because I can't really remember.

Also, by whom did he get cheated?
02-19-2011 , 03:34 PM
What a ****ing surprise
02-19-2011 , 03:34 PM
need racener in here imo
02-19-2011 , 03:34 PM
I think we caught a hanger, sarge!
02-19-2011 , 03:34 PM
cant wait to see the response to this dramabomb
02-19-2011 , 03:36 PM
We need to get Racener ITT

Last edited by rumnchess; 02-19-2011 at 03:36 PM. Reason: Early bird catches the worm
02-19-2011 , 03:36 PM
Somehow this doesn't seem as important as the peachy story, imo.
02-19-2011 , 03:37 PM
breaking news sorel is a scumbag
02-19-2011 , 03:37 PM
Ricky, I wanted to make sure and that's why I held off for a few weeks I've been really busy playing and I wanted to give sorel a chance to give his side when his side had no reasoning was just him saying I'm the victim always accused etc. He didn't try to correct any statement I made and the words he said to john that were relayed to me sound like someone who knows he got caught. Sending racner link to this thread now I'll let him deal with most of the comments and responses now as I have no further info then what I posted at the time. Anyone else who played sorel at chinese and think the same thing happened to them please feel free to add your insight
02-19-2011 , 03:37 PM
I agree with TT_fold that there's no concrete evidence, but if Racener/Sorel were really gambling the majority of the trip it wouldn't make sense for Racener to randomly make this kind of stuff up to get out of a 10k debt at Chinese? He just got 2nd in the main event...I mean it would be nice if Racener posted here but if what deeb says is true then that's damning. Also Sorel is a giant scumbag idiot so he fits the profile of someone that would do this.

Agree this is 10x worse than multiaccounting.
02-19-2011 , 03:40 PM
why did mement's post get deleted?
02-19-2011 , 03:41 PM
02-19-2011 , 03:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wd1head Sorel allegedly bottom dealing vs john racener
02-19-2011 , 03:44 PM
gg sorel

      
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