I just want to make sure I have my head fully around everything so I can find these spots and use them to maximize my profits in these 45 player turbo SNGs I'm grinding, as push botting is the meat and potatoes in these tourneys.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

So it's all derived from the Sklansky Chubukov hand rankings. In these rankings, even with your opponent seeing your cards, your play is still profitable.

To apply these to tourney play, IE to convert it to big blind instead of cash amount as it's saying in the rankings, you just divide the number in half, correct? For clarification, if the rankings say you can push 25 dollars here, divide that in half to get 12.5 BBs, correct?

How do we get M out of these rankings instead of BB?

Furthermore, these rankings are for blind versus blind, and if you are going to be pushing from the button, you need to divide that divided number (for BBs) in half again, correct? And for each position you lose, you need to divide it in half again, correct?

The better your hand, the bigger your stack you can unexploitably push. The weaker, the lower.

Opponents - the push is unexploitable because if your opponent tightens his range, you'll steal more, and if he looses his range, your hand will gain more value. Does this also mean that the type of opponent you're facing is irrelevant? If it's a total nit, or a total calling station, it's completely irrelevant because the push is profitable?

If so, does this mean we do not need to adjust pushing ranges for opponents? Like if someone is a calling station and you feel less likely to push because you worry they're more likely to call, can you simply ignore this?

Finally, how do you spot these unexploitable pushing situations? Just study the rankings and try to do everything on the fly?


Sorry for the bit of tl;dr but I just want to make sure I've completely got my head around this stuff so I can maximize my winnings. I'll probably try to post some hands later on, I really do need to get to bed. Tired as ****. ...tried to sleep but couldn't quit thinking about this **** :P

mostly we do this against aggressive tricky players who will reshove wider than they will call an all in...at times their reshoving range maybe ahead or flipping with our opening range...we shove KJ or 33 and hope that they fold A 7 which they will reship over a standard open (sure we are ahead of A7 but with antes we are happy to take the pot down pre).

Now if we have very nitty and unimaginative players yet to act we can raise/ fold more cause they will play predictably and will only reshove when they have our range crushed but will fold often enough to make our opens profitable.

If they are stationy we can shove or open depending on how comfortable we are playing the villan after the flop...

I gotcha.

Ok here's a couple hands I marked. Both standard pushes, first BVB with 8 (effective) BBs against a LAG, and the second on the button with just over 11 BBs pushing into a bit of a calling station with a big stack (BB).

This one I believe is "unexploitable" as they say. It's profitable even if he sees my hand. My stack is effectively 8 BBs (correct me if I'm wrong) and I believe according to the S C rankings, J10o is "unexploitable" here all the way up to about 12 BBs.

Poker Stars $3.00+$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t50/t100 Blinds - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

MP1: t2740 M = 18.27
MP2: t1330 M = 8.87
CO: t1265 M = 8.43
BTN: t450 M = 3
Hero (SB): t2955 M = 19.70
BB: t975 M = 6.50
UTG: t1845 M = 12.30
UTG+1: t2675 M = 17.83

Pre Flop: (t150) Hero is SB with T J
6 folds, Hero raises to t2955 all in, 1 fold




This one I don't believe is "unexploitable", but probably still +cEV. BB is a bit of a calling station with a big stack but I think a push was pretty standard here. According to the S C numbers, adjusted for BB and 2 opponents, I need about 7 BBs or less to make this "unexploitable" as they say.

Poker Stars $3.00+$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t50/t100 Blinds - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

MP1: t2740 M = 18.27
MP2: t1330 M = 8.87
CO: t1265 M = 8.43
BTN: t450 M = 3
Hero (SB): t2955 M = 19.70
BB: t975 M = 6.50
UTG: t1845 M = 12.30
UTG+1: t2675 M = 17.83

Pre Flop: (t150) Hero is SB with T J
6 folds, Hero raises to t2955 all in, 1 fold




Someone feel free to correct me if I'm way off on this and feel free to offer any general input. As said, I believe both are standard push botting pushes.

FML posted the same hand twice. This is the second hand.


Poker Stars $3.00+$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t50/t100 Blinds - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: t1545 M = 10.30
Hero (BTN): t1175 M = 7.83
SB: t1565 M = 10.43
BB: t4190 M = 27.93
UTG: t1860 M = 12.40
UTG+1: t1355 M = 9.03
MP1: t940 M = 6.27
MP2: t3415 M = 22.77

Pre Flop: (t150) Hero is BTN with Q T
5 folds, Hero raises to t1175 all in, 1 fold, BB calls t1075

Flop: (t2400) J J 5 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Turn: (t2400) J (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: (t2400) 7 (2 players - 1 is all in)

first one is unexploitable, 2nd one isnt but obv standard

Gentlemen,

Many questions there to answer/learn from a forum. What would be the best books to understand short stack/turbo play a little better? I have naturally read Harrington and the part on the structured hand analysis, but the staff you are discussing seems more advanced. What would you recommend (I know there is a special forum, but could not find it there)?

Wmermus

[x] Gentleman

Harrington on Holdem (vol. 2 specifically for push or fold preflop type poker) and Sklansky's Tournament poker for advanced players, which is also an extremely good book.