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A selection of possibly butchered hands for your consideration A selection of possibly butchered hands for your consideration

10-07-2010 , 12:03 PM
Hand #1

FTP $75 superstack with TPTK vs. UTG open. Villain is a winning reg with an ABI of $17; so far he seems fairly competent and not spewy. He's rarely if ever three-barrelling AK/88 imo, so I feel like I'm beat by the river (and he's not folding better at that point), but I hate my c/c line. On what street does this hand go off the rails for me? Is folding pre fine to avoid exactly this kind of spot?

Full Tilt Poker $25K Super Stack (Early Antes) No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t30/t60 Blinds + t7 - 9 players

UTG+2: t5196 M = 33.96
MP1: t11180 M = 73.07
MP2: t4179 M = 27.31
CO: t2086 M = 13.63
BTN: t6432 M = 42.04
SB: t5100 M = 33.33
Hero (BB): t5116 M = 33.44
UTG: t5296 M = 34.61
UTG+1: t9531 M = 62.29

Pre Flop: (t153) Hero is BB with T A
UTG raises to t150, 7 folds, Hero calls t90

Flop: (t393) T 9 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets t215, Hero calls t215

Turn: (t823) 6 (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets t485, Hero calls t485

River: (t1793) 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets t1100, Hero folds


Hand #2

FTP $75 superstack; same villain as previous hand. He's decently aggro and capable of 3betting pretty wide from SB here, as I've been active-ish. Am I insane for wanting to call river?

Full Tilt Poker $25K Super Stack (Early Antes) No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t60/t120 Blinds + t15 - 9 players

UTG: t17725 M = 56.27
UTG+1: t10557 M = 33.51
UTG+2: t5176 M = 16.43
MP1: t5729 M = 18.19
MP2: t10653 M = 33.82
CO: t4147 M = 13.17
Hero (BTN): t8964 M = 28.46
SB: t7796 M = 24.75
BB: t8588 M = 27.26

Pre Flop: (t315) Hero is BTN with 8 T
6 folds, Hero raises to t295, SB raises to t800, 1 fold, Hero calls t505

Flop: (t1855) 8 3 3 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets t995, SB calls t995

Turn: (t3845) 9 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

River: (t3845) Q (2 players)
SB bets t1975, Hero ?


Hand #3

Sunday Million. Villain is a losing microstakes player. Is this another flop where cbetting is awful? As played, Villain has ~8500 ott.

Poker Stars $200+$15 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t400/t800 Blinds + t50 - 9 players

SB: t8700 M = 5.27
BB: t43895 M = 26.60
UTG: t37525 M = 22.74
Hero (UTG+1): t42110 M = 25.52
UTG+2: t16125 M = 9.77
MP1: t8675 M = 5.26
MP2: t96457 M = 58.46
CO: t20909 M = 12.67
BTN: t14380 M = 8.72

Pre Flop: (t1650) Hero is UTG+1 with K Q
1 fold, Hero raises to t1975, 3 folds, CO calls t1975, BTN calls t1975, 2 folds

Flop: (t7575) 6 2 3 (3 players)
Hero bets t3885, CO folds, BTN calls t3885

Turn: (t15345) 3 (2 players)
Hero ?

Last edited by Gadarene; 10-07-2010 at 12:10 PM.
A selection of possibly butchered hands for your consideration Quote
10-07-2010 , 12:36 PM
hand 1 i think you can fold pre if villain is a tight player

hand 2 bet/call turn...call river as played

hand 3 bet turn
A selection of possibly butchered hands for your consideration Quote
10-07-2010 , 12:36 PM
1. nh
2. i'd probably fold to the 3bet but T8s is a pretty decent hand to peel with. i'd call the river. you b/f'ing flop?
3. don't mind the cbet personally. jam now though i'm not thrilled.

edit: actually i've changed my mind about flop cbet in 3, agree with derbos.
A selection of possibly butchered hands for your consideration Quote
10-07-2010 , 12:38 PM
1 fold pre post is fine
2 nah i'd call too idk if it's any good tho
3 c/f the flop, as played shove
A selection of possibly butchered hands for your consideration Quote
10-07-2010 , 12:49 PM
Hand 1- pre is fine to me with a suited ace and big stacks. Can't fold flop with tptk. Think against this opponent and oop I would just fold to the turn bet not expecting him to double barrel this early that often.

Hand 2- not sure about flop bet, think I may check top pair back here and try to get to showdown, would hate to get check raised. As played, looks like river is an amount that he expects to be called. Think I would fold.

Hand 3- I don't think a half pot cb here is bad, I probably bet this flop even with 2 villains most of the time. as played, put him in on the turn; he may fold, but probably will push if checked to.
A selection of possibly butchered hands for your consideration Quote
10-07-2010 , 02:24 PM
#1 - fold pre if you think his UTG open range is tightish. If you are going to play OOP, and you hit that flop, I like a b/f to find out where you are more than calling c/c another one or two streets. He may fold hands like AK or AQ that he opened with. If you get raised, you can happily fold.

#2 - I think betting the turn is absolutely mandatory. As played you probably have to call the river, but end up being beat a decent amount of the time.

#3 - into two villains on the flop, I don't mind a c/f. As played, jamming the turn is mandatory, and it the least bad thing to do.
A selection of possibly butchered hands for your consideration Quote
10-07-2010 , 02:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCEagleAce
#1 - fold pre if you think his UTG open range is tightish. If you are going to play OOP, and you hit that flop, I like a b/f to find out where you are more than calling c/c another one or two streets. He may fold hands like AK or AQ that he opened with. If you get raised, you can happily fold.

#2 - I think betting the turn is absolutely mandatory. As played you probably have to call the river, but end up being beat a decent amount of the time.

#3 - into two villains on the flop, I don't mind a c/f. As played, jamming the turn is mandatory, and it the least bad thing to do.
well you got one right, your advice in 1 is such a serious logic fail i thought you might be leveling.
A selection of possibly butchered hands for your consideration Quote
10-07-2010 , 03:12 PM
Hand 1.

I think it's fine to call pre and I think if you're calling flop and turn you can't be afraid of the river as I don't think a 9 is necessarily always in his range here. Especially if everyone thinks he's tightish what 9's are they expecting to get to river with? a9? if so cooler and I call the river still.

Hand 2.
Curious if anyone's on board for 2barreling since our potential equity in the hand just went up.

Hand 3.
I think this is a pretty bad spot to c-bet for obv reasons but as played i like phos idea of jamming turn although I think we get looked up more often than we like as I don't think there are my 3's in our range and anybody who is ahead and can hand read is calling.
A selection of possibly butchered hands for your consideration Quote
10-07-2010 , 03:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vikingprogress
Hand 1.

I think it's fine to call pre and I think if you're calling flop and turn you can't be afraid of the river as I don't think a 9 is necessarily always in his range here. Especially if everyone thinks he's tightish what 9's are they expecting to get to river with? a9? if so cooler and I call the river still.
I'm not worried about him having a 9, but I think JJ+ has to comprise a huge portion of his three-barrelling range after opening UTG.
A selection of possibly butchered hands for your consideration Quote
10-07-2010 , 03:37 PM
Then you should probably fold turn.


edit. I don't actually think that but if you think you're behind at that point it should be a fold for you.
A selection of possibly butchered hands for your consideration Quote
10-07-2010 , 03:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vikingprogress
Then you should probably fold turn.


edit. I don't actually think that but if you think you're behind at that point it should be a fold for you.
I think he two-barrels a decent % of worse hands and checks behind otr, so there's no reason to take, e.g., AK/88 out of his range just b/c of the turn bet. To me, it's the third barrel that weights his range strongly to overpairs.
A selection of possibly butchered hands for your consideration Quote
10-07-2010 , 04:00 PM
I think that's a really good point but you look very drawy to him and his sizing on the flop and turn seem like 2barrel sizings and the river is just great spot to barrel on.
A selection of possibly butchered hands for your consideration Quote
10-07-2010 , 05:29 PM
disregard everything i've said as i thought this was blind versus blind.
A selection of possibly butchered hands for your consideration Quote
10-07-2010 , 08:37 PM
h1; pre is ok, fold turn.
h2; fold river.
h3; smaller on flop, jam turn.
A selection of possibly butchered hands for your consideration Quote
10-07-2010 , 09:02 PM
1. Fold turn
2. I don't think your flop bet is standard but it seems ok. I agree with a turn bet being an option but then you can get to showdown for the same price if you just let river come off with a check. Your not insane from wanting to call river but it much more likely he is slow playing a big pair here then turning an Ace high into a bluff.
3. Turn is really annoying and I guess you should have had more of a plan, i.e this should be an auto jam if you suspect bad player will call flop a lot. At first I thought betting like 3655 as a stopper bet to see cheap river was a good option vs a donk but I think jamming does get folds from better
A selection of possibly butchered hands for your consideration Quote
10-07-2010 , 11:09 PM
1 is super fine pre, you can make straights and flushes and the nuts (which is a good thing) and you are 100BB deep almost. Also fold turn he isn't bluffing and there aren't many hands he can semi-bluff with.

2 you played fine turn is weird cuz you might have to b/c but who knows really so checking behind can't be too bad. river sucks but you should just fold cuz the only thing you beat is basically AK and he prob doesn't even bluff that on this river.

3 cbet isnt great there are a lot of hands ppl don't fold on this board and you are behind most of them... turn ez game shove.
A selection of possibly butchered hands for your consideration Quote
10-08-2010 , 11:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by busto_soon
h3; smaller on flop, jam turn.

Smaller on flop is interesting.
A selection of possibly butchered hands for your consideration Quote

      
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