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Resteals and ICM Resteals and ICM

11-18-2008 , 06:31 AM
Hello,

Hello,

Do you know how can I calculate the following problem using the available ICM Tools (SngWiz, SNGPT) or at least find close answer?

10 handed STT, 3 players remaining

blinds 150/300 (or 200/400)

BTN 3000
SB 6000 (Hero)
BB 6000

Hero's hand - A9, AK, 77, KQ

BTN folds

If I have I good clue about BB's resteal range, I want to calculate is it more profitable to raise 3 BB (and call all-in resteal) or is better to open push myself?

Thanks for your answers
Resteals and ICM Quote
11-18-2008 , 07:18 AM
With this hand range (which is a bit odd really, you have KQo but not AQo), your EV increases the wider BB calls. Therefore anything you can do to encourage him to get it all in pre-flop, the better. Therefore if you think he will resteal wider than calling a shove, then you should 3x raise it.

The only problem with this is you are ignoring the times BB flats, then you have to take a flop out of position.
Resteals and ICM Quote
11-18-2008 , 10:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hood
With this hand range (which is a bit odd really, you have KQo but not AQo), your EV increases the wider BB calls. Therefore anything you can do to encourage him to get it all in pre-flop, the better. Therefore if you think he will resteal wider than calling a shove, then you should 3x raise it.

The only problem with this is you are ignoring the times BB flats, then you have to take a flop out of position.
This is sure, the resteal range for the guy is much wider than the range with which he would pay all-in for 20bb.

These are only example hands, not some specific range. I did not include AQ because the answer would be close to AK probably, but will be very different for KQ. infact I would like to know how to calculate the difference in EV for both options?

For A9o you think it's better to gamble vs semi-decent hand for 20bb when there is a stack twice shorter than me, compared to taking the blinds almost uncontested when open pushing?
Resteals and ICM Quote
11-18-2008 , 10:32 AM
I'm pretty sure with A9o your Ev increases the wider BB's range is.

Quote:
infact I would like to know how to calculate the difference in EV for both options?
You aren't comparing two EV situations because in both cases there are only 2 outcomes - you take the blinds, or you get all-in against a certain range. Basically your question in this: If I raise/call, I will get all in with a wider villain range than if I push. So with my hand X, does it do better with a bigger calling range (i.e. I want to get all in), or with a smaller calling range? (i.e. I want fold equity).

A9 is a still premium hand in this situation and I don't think you want fold equity.
Resteals and ICM Quote
11-18-2008 , 10:36 AM
If you want numbers I would suggest using an old fashioned ICM calculator, and plugging in stack sizes for different outcomes to find the EV of different strategies. But since post-flop play is possible it would either have to be ignored or simplified, and well it just gets too messy/inaccurate.

Instead you should just try thinking about possible advantages of a raise over a shove. Then try to categorize which strategy is best depending on your hand strength. Here are some hints:
  • BB reshoves wider over a raise - advantage for monsters, disadvantage for mid-strength hands.
  • You can raise-fold - possibly an advantage if you have a hand too weak to open shove.
  • BB can flat call a raise - always a disadvantage, reduced FE, have to play pot OOP.

As always reads are a factor. Does BB understand ICM? Can he be exploited postflop?
Resteals and ICM Quote
11-18-2008 , 10:41 AM
Actually A9o is pretty close to wanting fold equity or not.



This is modelled in sit n go wiz, because as noted, it doesn't matter if we raise/fold or not - the outcome is you getting all-in against villain. What we can manipulate to an extent is his "getting-all-in" hand range.

Here we see with A9o, it's pretty marginal all the way. The only way we can really gain an edge is if we can induce him to:

a) get all in with a very wide (80%+ range)
b) fold extremely tightly

If you think open shoving will get him to fold tighter than like 5%, or 3x raising will get him to shove like 80%+, then take those lines.

Barring that, you might actually consider folding and passing up a 0.1% edge.

Important note is that this is assuming that villain can only do 1 or 2 things - shove or fold. He could flat pre, and then you'd have to do something on a flop. This of course could be advantagous.
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