Question for community to solve bet with my friend and I - MTT Poker Strategy

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Question for community to solve bet with my friend and I

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07-14-2008 , 06:09 PM

AceSpade11

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 286

At 1500/3000 blinds at a 10 person table with no ante and you have 20600 chips and get dealt K/Q off under the gun what do you do?

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07-14-2008 , 06:26 PM

MatteyA28

adept

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,047

shove

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07-14-2008 , 06:30 PM

AceSpade11

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 286

need 10 opinions please

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07-14-2008 , 06:31 PM

awarunn

adept

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 821

Your M=4.6 as long as there are no antes. I'm new to MTT's but when your M is that low I believe you should be pushing here.

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07-14-2008 , 06:31 PM

areaman

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 13,213

depends on other stacksizes and how tight/loose the table is.....

with all that said........i shove regardless

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07-14-2008 , 06:31 PM

BenFolds

banned

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 176

allin fast

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07-14-2008 , 06:34 PM

Barewire

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 9,724

how close to bubble? shoving utg w/ KQ is easy here if you have a long way to go but if going another orbit means $$$....

edit: now that i think about it if your table is tight due to bubble shoving is probably even easier...

edit2: ok just push as long as there's not a massive pay jump 3 hands from now.

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07-14-2008 , 06:48 PM

Toast91185

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 4,033

pushbot chart says its a shove with an M=2.5 FWIW, but UTG is the new BTN, so we have a few things working here. I say bomb it in because I don't think that chart factors in the loss of FE after letting the blinds pass
edit: but stack sizes would be helpful. If 5BBs would put a dent in a stack to your immediate left and his left, then you may be able to hold off.

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07-14-2008 , 06:51 PM

RemyXO

old hand

Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,374

I would consider not shoving if we are on the bubble or I have a couple of HUGE loose stacks behind me.
Default is still shove, IMHO.

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07-14-2008 , 07:08 PM

#10

ssnyc

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 38,129

hmmm...how much do you win/lose if I say fold...

ok..shove

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07-14-2008 , 07:10 PM

#11

CBorders

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 16,500

KQ is the nizzles, arr in.

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07-14-2008 , 07:19 PM

#12

DrawinBlanks

old hand

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 1,804

Just cause I want to be one of the cool kids....Chuck Norris fist-pumping shove

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07-14-2008 , 07:29 PM

#13

el_dusto

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 2,129

fistpump chairspin shove barring really, really weird circumstances

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07-14-2008 , 08:32 PM

#14

Mariogs379

adept

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,067

toast,
what pushbot chart are you referring to?

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07-14-2008 , 08:35 PM

#15

Barewire

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 9,724

yeah KQs is 2.5 at a tight table for pushbot from what is ee. KQo is in the under 2 zone but once again utg is new the btn after all.

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07-14-2008 , 08:37 PM

#16

zedveron

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 4,976

Pushbot chart I have says a push is -EV. Fold. (A9o and 44 would be a push here.)

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07-14-2008 , 08:49 PM

#17

el_dusto

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 2,129

the pushbot chart does not consider the effect of blinds going up or approaching you. thusly i think it's super-shortstack recommendations (M=3 and below) are a little on the tight side, especially for UTG and UTG+1.

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07-14-2008 , 09:37 PM

#18

Solanthos

adept

Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,116

Shovey Mc'Shoverson

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07-14-2008 , 11:07 PM

#19

awarunn

adept

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 821

Results plz? Stakes etc.?

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07-14-2008 , 11:27 PM

#20

HammondHammond

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 243

Payout structure and the number of players left can easily swing this from a push to a fold. It's a marginal push (worst hand you should push) far from the money in a big MTT.

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07-14-2008 , 11:35 PM

#21

Reckless1der

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,552

Of course the proper answer is "it depends." But to play along I will vote for the fold option as my default play for this decision. This is similar to post not too long ago. I say fold because no worse hand will call. You will either be behind a Big Ace, Suited Mid Ace, or Pocket Pair.

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07-15-2008 , 01:29 AM

#22

AceSpade11

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 286

I thought it was very close and when my friend pushed I said soon as he did it that I maybe fold that.

It is an M of less then 5 but your UTG and only called by hands that crush you. My biggest point in case was that there are no antes. After he folds he can easily take another BB and SB and have plenty of chips to push with. He doesn't have to worry as much about taking a huge hit from the antes before blinds come around again.

cutoff called with AQ and he lost. It was the $50 rebuy at ipoker. He was barely in the money

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07-15-2008 , 01:34 AM

#23

Toast91185

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 4,033

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reckless1der

This is assuming that those hands show up. Additionally, what is in the pot makes up for lost equity in races. Also, once the blinds pass we will have no FE, which means we will likely be racing anyway on the button.

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07-15-2008 , 04:56 AM

#24

Reckless1der

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,552

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toast91185

For simplicity sake, let's assume that if there is a top 10% hand (77+, A7s+, KQs, QJs, AJo, and KQo) in the remaining 9 hands, our hero will get called. When that happens our hero will be a 63:37 dog against that range.

The probability that he will win in a walk is Pr(no callers) = (1 - 0.1)^9 = .9^9 = 0.387; hence, the prob he is called is 1 - that or 0.613