Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
QQ preflop QQ preflop

12-02-2014 , 03:55 AM
I've been playing some small to mid stakes MTT recently. I'm with QQ in the SB with about 35 bb. UTG min raises, and a mid position player raises very small to just a little bit above double the UTG's raise. It is folded to me. I could have raised there, but I wasn't really going to fold to a 5 bet, so I shoved. I could have flat called, but I don't really want to be in a most likely 3 or possibly 4 handed flop with QQs. BB and UTG folds and the mid position player snap calls with AA. I've been in a lot of similar situations where people try to extract value from AA even when they could easily be facing 3 or more callers in the past few weeks. Should I just expect AA or KK with this kind of action at these stakes? because I don't really see this kind of action in live or much higher buyin tournies... The thing with the AA or KK is that on the flop, you are rarely gonna be very far ahead when your cbet get called with like 4 or 5 people in the hand. And a lot of times when you are far ahead with AA or KK, you could have gotten a lot more value just by betting larger preflop.
QQ preflop Quote
12-02-2014 , 05:44 AM
I like jamming if jamming would jam to two all ins.. Otherwise, you are sort of in a time machine dilemma. Maybe you know what I mean. These people who are raising small are with AA,KK are actually making a smart play even if it is highly obnoxious. Their hand is good regardless of how many players they are up against. If they get a call from some joker with 22 they can stack them if they hit their Ace, etc. They can also extract value from flush draws etc.

Against a player who does this every single time without fail obviously fold. I like flatting because of the time machine dilemma probably. Others may disagree.

Last edited by juggle5344; 12-02-2014 at 06:06 AM.
QQ preflop Quote
12-02-2014 , 05:00 PM
Easy jam pre. NH if they have KK or AA, but you're also flipping with/dominating some of his hands too. A lot of these randoms will get it in pretty bad, so I'm never doing anything but jamming pre with such a strong hand.
QQ preflop Quote
12-03-2014 , 05:45 AM
Jamming is horrendous.
QQ preflop Quote
12-03-2014 , 05:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cicakman
Jamming is horrendous.
+10. You can take a flop with your stack if you have two smaller stacks min raising. Shoving makes your range somewhat transparent.
QQ preflop Quote
12-03-2014 , 08:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudflips123
+10. You can take a flop with your stack if you have two smaller stacks min raising. Shoving makes your range somewhat transparent.
There is only 1 small stack, the mid position player had me covered by at least double. If i just flat the raise, i'm out of position with 2 people behind me as UTG will virtually never fold getting about 6 to 1 odds. UTG might shove, but if he does, we are back to the same situation. However, I'm just asking for some opinions on the range of the mid position player. Seems too often the player shows up with AA or KK. Idk, maybe it's just my luck, lol. Also the title is kinda misleading, it just points to the specific hand in the post, but really has nothing to do with what i'm asking, lol...
QQ preflop Quote
12-03-2014 , 10:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniST
There is only 1 small stack, the mid position player had me covered by at least double. If i just flat the raise, i'm out of position with 2 people behind me as UTG will virtually never fold getting about 6 to 1 odds. UTG might shove, but if he does, we are back to the same situation. However, I'm just asking for some opinions on the range of the mid position player. Seems too often the player shows up with AA or KK. Idk, maybe it's just my luck, lol. Also the title is kinda misleading, it just points to the specific hand in the post, but really has nothing to do with what i'm asking, lol...
You're asking the wrong question. Different people show up with all kinds of different things when they do that and good players will balance whatever sizing.

The question you should be asking is how best to respond with QQ here. Specifically, how to put your money in best vs his range for 3 betting a utg raise.

Jamming doesn't seem like the best way to do that but then again, you didn't give any reads....

also, your reason for jamming instead of making some other 4b amount is flawed.
QQ preflop Quote
12-03-2014 , 08:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrunkMonkey
You're asking the wrong question. Different people show up with all kinds of different things when they do that and good players will balance whatever sizing.

The question you should be asking is how best to respond with QQ here. Specifically, how to put your money in best vs his range for 3 betting a utg raise.

Jamming doesn't seem like the best way to do that but then again, you didn't give any reads....

also, your reason for jamming instead of making some other 4b amount is flawed.
How can I be asking the wrong question when I'm the one asking the question? There is really no reads as I've just started recently at these stakes. Against these specific opponents, I have like 10 hands against them. I'm just trying to get some info on specific reads, and not some long run +/- EV evaluation. In tournaments, sometimes you have to make the -EV plays depending on the dynamics of the table. Also, against all opponent's raise on a UTG, my QQ are very far ahead. And I didn't say jamming was the best way, I had a choice there to flat, 4b or jam. My reasoning not to 4b is that it would put a bit more than a 3rd of my stack unless I bet extremely small. I'm pretty much committed at that moment. And at that point, there are alot of cards that can fall on the flop that either kill my action or kill my hand if mid position player just decided to flat my 4b. On example is like if he had AK, and board goes 987.
QQ preflop Quote
12-03-2014 , 09:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniST
How can I be asking the wrong question when I'm the one asking the question? There is really no reads as I've just started recently at these stakes. Against these specific opponents, I have like 10 hands against them. I'm just trying to get some info on specific reads, and not some long run +/- EV evaluation. In tournaments, sometimes you have to make the -EV plays depending on the dynamics of the table. Also, against all opponent's raise on a UTG, my QQ are very far ahead. And I didn't say jamming was the best way, I had a choice there to flat, 4b or jam. My reasoning not to 4b is that it would put a bit more than a 3rd of my stack unless I bet extremely small. I'm pretty much committed at that moment. And at that point, there are alot of cards that can fall on the flop that either kill my action or kill my hand if mid position player just decided to flat my 4b. On example is like if he had AK, and board goes 987.
this is all awful logic. its too much to even bother typing out why.
QQ preflop Quote
12-03-2014 , 10:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cicakman
this is all awful logic. its too much to even bother typing out why.
then why did you bother typing this post out then?
QQ preflop Quote
12-05-2014 , 02:02 PM
OP, for the future, there is a template for posting these questions which will help you get answers much more quickly from us.

As for your question with MP, I still see a call being your best move since you will more than likely keep a third player in while seeing a flop that you'll be ahead in most of the time.

I can see MPs range being 22+, AXs, K8s+, Q9s+ and JT preflop.
All hands that he could flat with his stack, but also minraise and possibly sandbag with later with 2 other players involved.
QQ preflop Quote
12-07-2014 , 11:53 AM
How do we exploit bad players? By not falling for obvious traps. They have AA/KK here 90% of the time at low stakes, I would be fist pumping with QQ because I know exactly what they have and I can just flat all day and set mine.

When a Q hits just lead out and expect to be raised all in and move on. You need to automate these spots.

Players at low stakes are simply never min 3 betting TT/JJ against an UTG raise, ever ever ever ever ever ever. Best hand they can have is AK, and there's just no reason with 35bb to be jamming against this range.
QQ preflop Quote
12-08-2014 , 10:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjunt1
Players at low stakes are simply never min 3 betting TT/JJ against an UTG raise, ever ever ever ever ever ever. Best hand they can have is AK, and there's just no reason with 35bb to be jamming against this range.
I don't agree here without more information. No details about the blinds or the spot in the tourney. If blinds are, say, 200/400 and stack is 35bb (14,000), UTG raise to 800 and MP re-raises to 1200. We have QQ in SB. I've seen plenty of villains make that kind of 3-bet with Ax, KQs, QJs, J10s, and 88+. I don't think this 3-bet is AA/KK 90% of the time at all.

That said, at these blind levels I'm flatting here because the money in the pot is not worth the shove risk and I'd rather see how the flop comes and see whether I can get big value from my QQ and if one of the villains raises me or if and A or K comes on the flop i can get away cheaply.
QQ preflop Quote
12-09-2014 , 12:24 AM
OP, you are decimated by any calling range, and you chase away hands that you beat and wouldn't mind seeing a flop against.
QQ preflop Quote
12-09-2014 , 01:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinGChapman
That said, at these blind levels I'm flatting here because the money in the pot is not worth the shove risk and I'd rather see how the flop comes and see whether I can get big value from my QQ and if one of the villains raises me or if and A or K comes on the flop i can get away cheaply.
lots wrong with that.
QQ preflop Quote

      
m