Rather than adding another post to a thread with hundreds of posts already, covering a wide range of issues, I thought I'd target one specific area of the new Stars MTT schedule; payouts. After playing a full weekend with the new schedule I can tell you that low buyin payouts are the number one biggest problem I see with the current schedule. Since catering to rec players like myself, who play mainly for fun, and top up $50-$200/month to recharge my roll, seems to be business that Pokerstars is targeting, I can tell you that the payouts will prevent me from continuing to devote free weekends to playing in the future if they stay the way they are.

This is a specific case from today. I was playing the Big 2.20 for about 4 hours, and the field was down from 7,685 players to 400+, or roughly the top 6%. Figuring that after beating 7,246 other players I'd at least be looking at 2-3x my buyin, I checked the lobby to see what the ladder looked like. I was shocked to see that the next payout at #439 paid a paltry $3.78, or 1.7x the buyin. After playing for 4 hours, and finishing in the top 6% of the field. Guys, this is ridiculous.

Maybe at higher stakes, deepening the payouts makes sense, because a 1.7BI min cash in a $300 tourney is actually money you can count for more than a cup of coffee. I dunno because I don't play at those stakes, but at least in theory I can understand why having more players min cash in 10K events like the WSOP keeps more money in the poker ecosystem. However, at the low/micro stakes, it has the opposite effect. Playing for 4 hours and beating thousands of people for a payout that isn't even 2x the buyin is a joke. It's worse than not cashing at all.

Checking the payout structure for the Big 2.20 today there were payouts from places #342 to #1196 in a 7K field, ranging from $3.19 to $3.98. All payouts below 2x the buyin, which never used to be the case with the old structures. So ask yourselves, at the low/micro stakes who does this benefit? Are those extra 800+ places that you're paying $3-$4 each to going to keep more money in the economy, or lower their variance? Of course not. There is no micro/low stakes grinder in the world that gains ANYTHING from min cashing an MTT for a $1-$2 profit after playing for 4 hours. I don't care how many tables they are playing, what their cost of living is, or what kind of ROI they have. A min cash of less than 2x BI in a low stakes MTT is quite simply worthless. You're throwing all that extra money away that could be boosting the top of the pool, where it actually matters, into garbage payouts that literally no one could care about. Paying 15-16% of the field in these huge MTT's is simply robbing players who finish in the top 10% to give meaningless cashes to the bottom 5-6%.

PLEASE fix the payouts soon, or revert them to what they used to be in the micro/low stakes. I can accept the structures, and the lack of old MTT's that I used to play. But min cashing for 1.x the BI is an insult to rec players.

you arrived at this conclusion yourself and still had to ask why stars might do this?

gotta cycle that money so they keep on raking

This.

Pokerstars don't care if the win is meaningless in $ terms. It gives more micro recs the taste of a cash, feeding the mentality that if they are beating out 'thousands of players,' they must be good. This way they continue to reload, waiting for that day they bink a big one. Same ideology as slot machines really. Little wins here and there that don't mean anything and they keep sliding in those 20's hoping to hit that jackpot that very rarely comes, if ever.

Meanwhile, it's forcing a lot winning regs out of the game because they can see that it's nowhere near as profitable as it used to be. More recs, less regs, faster tournaments, etc.

Don't get me wrong; I hate the new payout structures as much as the next, but the guys at home on the weekend pounding a few beers and clicking buttons aren't really paying attention to the payout structures.

But you're kind of making my point. To the rec players the 'little wins' don't mean anything. They (me included) will just keep reloading when their BR is busto. So why rob the top of the payout pool to give out meaningless cashes at the bottom of the field? Does the guy chugging a beer on Sunday playing the Big 2.20 care if he cashes for a $1.58 profit? Not likely. Do you really think those players get motivated because Stars paid them $1.58? No, they're going to be motivated because they ran semi-deep, and think they have a shot, as you said. The payout is meaningless.

So I guess I have a really hard time understanding who the new payouts (at least at the low/micros) benefits? It's certainly not good for reg or grinders, that is without question. And from a rec player, it's actually de-motivating. Going to the final 6% of a long MTT and not even getting 2x my buyin back pisses me off. I'd rather not have cashed at all.

So is the answer really as cynical as creating more rake, or turnover, because that $1.58 gets put back into another MTT or a SpinNGo? Sad days if that's the case. I'd love to hear the case made for these payouts from Luke or anyone at Stars. Please give me one reason to understand who this benefits. I'm a rec player that will almost always listen to reason and give Stars the benefit of the doubt, but I'm straining here. Throw me a bone...

its a quick money grab. it won't last long.

and yes its forcing regs out of the big 3.30 - big 5 etc so just means the mediocre regs will clean them up in the long run

Op u should start a petition...