When you're playing live tourneys where often you get something like 1500 chips with blinds starting at 25/50 with 15 minute levels, what's your approach to these games since generally the blinds go up really fast and you only are getting so many hands per blind level (like 7 hands per 15 minutes?).

Do you guys play as many decent hands as possible (like K9) or still try to play "tight enough?" What if you're card dead? i.e. 2-3 blind levels of 95o, 27o, 45o, etc.

Thats not a normal live tourney..sounds like a short stack superturbo

This is a really piss poor tournament structure.

Play every hand you can get into cheaply. Raise every hand that you have two cards that have something to do with each other. Check/fold every flop that doesn't hit you or give you a draw. Bet every hand that hits you or gives you a draw. Do that until you are severely short stacked or the blinds become too large for any hand to be "cheap"

Flat call under the gun with 7-5 offsuit. Raise under the gun with 10-J offsuit. Who cares? You aren't playing real poker so why bother having real hands?

Full disclosure: I expect 90% of the people who read this post to whole heartedly disagree with the strategy. Most people think that the beginning of a tournament is time to wait for big hands and feel out the competition. This is terribly misguided, though, because math says you'll sit through the entire "cheap" portion of the tournament without ever seeing a premium hand.....and math also says that even if you do get two or three premium hands at the beginning, one or two of those won't hold up. Meanwhile, you've flopped a straight two times, once with 3-6 offsuit and once with 5-8 offsuit and you could be filthy rich, but unfortunately you folded both of those hands preflop when it was only 50 to call. :/

The beginning of a tournament like this is chip making time. By the time you get to the 6th-7th blind level, if you don't have at least 2x the average stack, you're in trouble because soon everybody who was waiting for their premium dream hand is short stacked and will be shoving pre-flop, and you can't afford to deal with that unless you're stacked. Once the eliminations start slowing down and everybody remaining has a decent stack you can start playing real poker for a little while until the blinds become ridiculous leading into the final table.


You should either be eliminated less than 30 minutes into this tournament or you should cash this tournament, very rarely anything in between, and your attitude should be that you genuinely don't give a damn which one it is.

Hmm, my mistake, I meant 25/50 with a starting stack of 2500 chips. I guess that changes things a little since you have 50 BB vs. 30.

I've seen a few more tourneys at places like Majestic Star in Illinois/Indiana and a few other places with tournament structures with 3,000 to 6,000 starting stacks and 15 to 20 minute blind levels.

I suppose I'm a little iffy about live tourneys since generally I see at best 20 minute blind levels and that equates to about 10 hands per blind level which doesn't seem like a lot given the rapidly increasing blinds.

Thoughts on play especially if you're 'card dead?'

Doesnt change anything...

Still a terrible tourney structure

Most live tourneys start with 15k chips at the min while others 20-30k...with a min of 30 min blinds

Playing speculative hands anywhere but the button with stacks like that is bad.

If you are card dead (or even if you aren't) you are going to need to steal blinds, and to do that you need to have a solid table image and a healthy enough stack to pressure others. If it gets bled away by calling and folding, you'll have neither.

TAG it up.

Nah, those extra 1000 dont change a thing, this is way too fast of a structure. I don't think being 'card dead' is a real thing in this type of tournament. As long as you have two cards youre in pretty good shape.

If you're short stacked (or deep stacked) and get bad cards you will probably lose. Just the way it is.

Just steal when it's correct to steal. Don't force the issue. Makes it too easy for everyone else.

I wholeheartedly disagree with NToasty.

At 50 bb you can play more speculative if you wish but the only reason this is acceptable is if you can stack bad players. Otherwise it's kind of bad.

You'll either get lucky or you won't. I have come in first in big MTT's only playing big hands.

When you're down to 15 bb it is mathematically correct to jam a lot of hands in SB and button so it's not like you will be playing like an ultra nit even at 15-20 bb even if you were just to play push/fold at this pont.

No, that's not true. It isn't "either you'll get lucky or you won't."

You won't get lucky, you'll get blinded out.

It doesn't matter one bit that you start the tournament with 50BB. What matters is that if you don't play a hand, in ~10 hands you'll have 23.5BB and ~10 hands after that you'll have 10BB. You do not have enough chips to sit around and wait and you will not receive enough premium starting hands that hold up to win this tournament outright. That's why my strategy is the winner in games like this - because card dead doesn't exist, and if you're gonna lose a game like this you may as well do it quickly.

change game.

What?

Unless you're telling me to change games because you disagree with my strategy. In which case, shut up. Also, try picking out specific points that you disagree with rather than the angsty BS that you went with, because I guarantee you that you are wrong and I can explain why.

Not much to say, everything you wrote is terribly fishy and seems written in 2006, it seems like hearing conversations by low stakes live players who come up with the most absurd theories, and there is not even point trying to explain why all you wrote does not make any sense as you would probably be all defensive thinking to be a great player because you shipped a 50$ tourney at the local casino. Keep playing like this please and limp your 36o and print money, but avoid giving advice to posters who would like to improve their game.

So you think it better if I suggest he get blinded out?

Two important quotes you should re-read:

I am not suggesting that you use this strategy in a real poker tournament. Go to the WSOP and play like this and you'll get laughed out of the room. The tournament described in this thread is not real poker. (its probably one of those $50 local casino games that you just laughed off) I am suggesting that you use this strategy in a tournament where you start short stacked with quick blinds. Try doing exactly what I describe at a tournament like this and you will be a profitable player. Sit there and get blinded out like a dumbass and you will lose money.

But hey, get blinded out, I don't care. Just don't give people the impression that they have to sit there and wait on a premium hand while the blind timer counts down to certain doom.

Also, I resent the comment about limping with 6-3. I would never do that. There's a big difference between 7-5 (the worst hand I specifically mentioned) and 6-3.

Unless of course I had 6-3 and was close to the button, in which case limp limp limp. (early in the game - before the blinds get above about 200)

Really sorry about the quadruple post...


I guess I did specifically mention 6-3 in that post. In a tournament like this, UTG your range should be incredibly loose, and you should probably raise if you're gonna play so far out of position. (Any connectors that include a 5 or a 10, A-2+, any pocket pair, any two face cards)

As you get closer to the button it loosens up further to include limping with almost any two cards on the button, which is where hands like 6-3 come into play.

And this is ONLY early in the tournament. Once the antes kick in, which is usually 100-200 with a 25 ante, all of this goes out the door and you go back to a range that is a little close to what most people play.

Your strategy is complete nonsense. You have not even made-up an illogical (much less a logical one) reason to support it; there's no support at all. It's just a bunch of incorrect statements all run together.

OP, the correct spots to shove are well-known: http://www.pushfoldcharts.com/fullring/

When you have 10 big blinds, play the correct 10 big blind strategy, ...

Do you think somehow you'll do better playing a worse strategy -- like what's being recommended in this thread?

What else are you looking for?

I wondered how this got like 17 posts... gold