Seat 4 is the button
Seat 1: Hero ( 3541 )
Seat 2: Player2 ( 4635 ) - VPIP: 50, PFR: 4, 3B: 0, AF: 0.8, Hands: 28
Seat 3: Player3 ( 2945 )
Seat 4: Player4 ( 4708 )
Seat 5: Player5 ( 2640 ) - VPIP: 4, PFR: 0, 3B: 0, AF: 0.0, Hands: 27
Seat 6: Player6 ( 2705 )
Player5 posts small blind [30].
Player6 posts big blind [60].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ K K ]
Hero raises [150]
Player2 calls [150]
Player3 folds
Player4 calls [150]
Player5 calls [120]
Player6 folds
** Dealing Flop ** [ 4, 6, Q ]
Player5 bets [180]
Hero raises [660]
Player2 calls [660]
Player4 folds
Player5 raises [2310]


Hero folds?

hero shoves. even when his range is just 44/66/AQ we´re 55/45

Don't think I can fold here. I think you see villain show up with some decent Qx and flush draws

i love this

I know it`s dumb Q, but do we take this line w/o "being priced in",too?
Does the fact that we`re playing for 45BB effective change anything at this point?

Pretty mandatory fold. The action pre and otf is really strong already, and he looks tight. Also in a low stakes cashgame I would say this is an "easy" fold.

I would 3x open here utg in the pre-ante stage to build a bigger pot.

As played otf, this is a pretty easy fold now imo. You don't beat sets

not folding here, too many droolers early stages in a $2 donkament and why are we betting 180 into like 600? make it more man or you price people in to crack you.

Player 5 (very tight thusfar) donks small, we raise to 660 and after a coldcall he jams. Hero isn't cbetting.

I didn't. The SB donked into me 180 and I raised ~pot (660).

^^
o sorry got mixed up, my bad

nothing wrong with folding a pair of kings in multiway pot...however it really does depend on reads on villian, if i know villian is half decent and 3bets flop with anything better then pair like 2pairs/sets then i'll rather be folding. there will be times i will gii here on the flop if i'm readless on villian though.

Surprised no one has brought up the sidepot w/ player 2. Anyone with thoughts on how that effects my decision. After calling 660 we have to assume a loose-passive opponent is calling it off if I re-shove, they're never putting in that much and folding IMO

no one is talking about player 2 because he never (or very rarely) has you beat

Does putting in x chips vs him when always ahead reduce the -EV side of putting in x chips vs the SB when often behind? Doing the latter allows us to do the former which we couldn't do if we fold.

That's actually an interesting point. But i'm not sure if the overlay is big enough. The amount of chips we'll be left with when we lose is also a consideration, although it's better than busting. And he's still folding some % obv, so that also plays a role.

And yes, it's a save assumption to make we're beat a lot by player 5, this is a line almost no one would be taking with toppair. It's a sort of milk/induce/jam (although donksmall/CIB is also common on dryer boards) type of line bad passive players and bad nits tend to take.

Flop: (660) 4 6 Q (4 players)
SB bets 180, Hero raises to 660, MP calls 660, BTN folds, SB raises to 2,490 and is all-in, Hero raises to 3,391 and is all-in, MP calls 2,731

Turn: (9,932) 7 (3 players, 2 are all-in)
River: (9,932) 7 (3 players, 2 are all-in)

Results: 9,932 pot
Final Board: 4 6 Q 7 7
Hero showed K K and lost (-3,541 net)
MP showed 3 5 and won 9,932 (6,391 net)
BTN mucked and lost (-150 net)
SB showed 6 Q and lost (-2,640 net)



I almost never do this type of math to analyze the hand, but if I'm correct:
I had 20% equity in the main pot of 8130 chips = 1626 chips
and 64% equity in the side pot of 1802 chips = 1153 chips
= an EV of 2779 chips

After my 660 raise, my reshove committed my last 2731 chips

Making this almost a breakeven play against the exact hands.

However, when the BB shows up with a set instead of twopair and MP has a flush draw instead of a straight draw, this becomes very -EV

But what if BB has KQ or AQ and MP a straight draw?

I dunno, I'm pretty on the fence as to what the correct play was.

doing math is useless against single hands. if you create a range for each and stove it you will get much better numbers. sometimes they will both have a set, sometimes they will both have a fd, or tp, or sd.

side pot isnt of much concern as its so small and your equity in main pot is more important.

No

seriously? did you not read the words following that?

Stoving a range is great but it is based on speculation and I will leave it up to others as I don't expect my ability to range my opponents to be that amazing... hence why I posted the hand

I find it interesting to calculate the exact EV of my play based on the only absolute truth, being the hands that my opponents did get it in with not those that I'm guessing they would have

I find it interesting and not "useless"

in reality they show up with that exact hand like 1 in 20 times or less. i would call that pretty useless as opposed to the range they will have 15/20 times.

also will be very results oriented.

its a donkament so you can stack off but it's highly likely youre behind given the action so just fold

You played it well, MP can have all sorts of crap and SB isn't unlikely to hold QTo.

say wat?

dude you're looking at it wrong, and if you're folding KK on this flop you're doing it wrong.

any standard cooler.....got the chips in good though.

?????

The absolute truth is what you know when you have to make your decision. You do not know what hands your opponents hold until the chips go in. You have to give them a range if you want to know if you made the right play or not.