Micro, you also didn't answer my first question.

.

I think I tried at the bottom of post 216.

There are some special programs for solar and low-income rental housing. Public housing projects certainly have potential. Most section 8 is just rent subsidy for qualifying people living in private housing and the section 8ness of the housing wouldn't affect the solar proposition. The old "project based" Section 8 private multifamily housing projects still usually have individually metered units. (in Cali anyway)

I did install several fully subsidized systems for qualifying people in Watts and will probably be doing a couple more soon in Anaheim.

It's hard to sell to the government or any large organization. If I were to go after a market like that it would definitely be schools.

Mexcian market FTW

I know one guy and have met another who have done some solar in Mexico. They both were doing off-grid systems.

If I wanted to work somewhere where utility rates were double Cali, I'd just go to Hawaii. In fact, there's a company over there that wanted to fly me and a crew, tools and everything, to work in Hawaii towards the end of last year, but we were committed to things here.

Production from China > Mexico and installation across Mexico is the future IMO. Start getting cozy with cartel and govt. officials and get ahead of the curve IMO.

Pfft. Keystone pipeline and fracking trumps solar for the next 50 years.

Just sayin'.

Was reading on my phone and missed it. Thanks. The reason I asked is because it's a very valid reason for wanting low paybacks if it's not raising your property value enough.

Thanks for sharing micro, I love hearing about other professions.

This.

Production wise that doesn't sound unreasonable and maybe in 50 years I'll install my millionth panel and overtake fossil fuel production. It would be better if it were 40 or fewer years though. I might still be able to lift a panel at 86.

But, people are paying up to $.39/kwh in top tiers around here in SoCal and I can deliver solar power at around $.06/kwh right now.

Just sayin'

Yeah, and I don't even bring up property value. If it comes up, I lump it in with incidentals like keeping your house cooler by shading your hottest roof and saving the world.

np.

I'm not gonna start discussing hands cos it's generally frowned upon in the **** thread (and rightly so, poker really aint that interesting).

Well that's what the entrenched fossil-fuel interests want us to believe. Solar-thermal technology is already being built which is capable of providing almost around-the-clock baseload electricity, and that technology will keep improving rapidly. It seems idiotic not to start building many more such plants in a country like the USA, given how much sunlight hits that land-mass.

http://www.earthtechling.com/2013/10...united-states/

The green energy boondogle has failed miserably in Germany. It will fail in the US as well.

http://www.mlive.com/politics/index....e_green_e.html

Not slanted at all imo. Doubt most true green energy people are calling for biomass energy or more ethanol subsidies.

I lived in germany for 2.5 years and I can tell you for sure there is 3 months of the year where it rains **** all day. The best I can tell German is approx 20 latitude north of LA ignoring the cloud cover. I lived in Zweibrucken and if I'm to believe some random site on the internet the highest average temperature they have all year is approx 76 American degrees. Installing a solar panel in germany makes about as much sense as an ice maker in an igloo. Cliffs, visit after May.

the degenaments are worthy of sharing. If you had none, that is fine. I feel like everytime I ever went to a casino there was alwasy something wild there, casino bring out the craziest.

slightly off topic, but I was thinking of getting in the solar business. How many tools could I buy if I got into it?

So you want to get into the installation business?

Looking out my window right now, confirmed. Don't expect to see the sun till March. Also, the sun goes down at around 4:30pm during the winter so it doesn't have much chance to make an appearance.

Am on 2+2 app and cannot requote Micro's answer to this, but chances are likely well above zero.
You also have to factor in that money today is worth considerably more than money you gain in 8 years time, since also money devaluates over time. So generally the breakeven calculations are not completely fair as they often don't factor this.
Even though the technology itself might nog be the biggest cost factor it is likely to further decrease considerably over time, as mentioned that already happened and is more likely to continue than not.
Next to that there is additional investment risk that at some point regulations might change and make things more/less favourable in terms of subsidies etc.
Generally doing investments that only show a positive NPV after 5-8 years are not the best.

Are maintenance costs taken into the equasion?

Just playing the devil's advocate here a bit as I do think the other points are strong, especially since energy rates are more likely to go up than down over time.

Hell my manager has solar panels installed on his roof in the rainy Netherlands and he is smarter than me..

Duerdy,

Yeah but, in most cases I can get you straight payback in that time and utility rates are increasing more than just about any secure investment which more than cancels out that net present value business.

Incentives here are generally paid up front (or soonish), so it's almost impossible for changing regulations to affect them.

As I mentioned the economics vary a lot by location and how good a shopper you are.

Most potential clients will be weighing this investment vs. <2% in a savings account, but even if they are somewhat more aggressive, there are not many/any investments with this kind of return that are anywhere near as safe as saving money on your electric bill.

Warranty for my clients is 10 years bumper to bumper including labor. No maintenance unless they want to wash the panels. The most expensive part of the system, the panels, are warrantied for 25 years. I've never had an installed solar panel fail. Out of thousands, one was shipped with a wire that was loose and one had the glass broken in shipping. They were both replaced by the manufacturer. One system I did was replaced under a warranty issue, but it was working fine. One system was replaced because of some discoloration, but it was working fine. One panel had the glass broken by a golf ball.

It's a fairly long list and I'll of course help you with it if you need it. Here's a peek at my new favorite power tool:



If I were a really good boy, Jewish Santa would be bringing me this:

Who said they don't make good music any more? Just put this on for your next hour night car drive imo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ruEY4jbZJU

It's not that bad, actually it rains a lot more in LA from January to March than in the rain-heaviest month here according to climate graphs. Some regional differences also.
Overall I hate german climate though, but I'm the kind of guy who enjoys 30° with high humidity ^^