I have played a lot of these and would hate to see the structure of the million style ones change to the slower style.

I wouldn't hate it if some levels were removed from the rebuy period actually. Then wind the blinds back to 2/4 or 2.5/5 after addon.

I'd prefer a slower structure post addon... but would like them to be consistent most importantly.

This isn't simple in the way you make it to be and a 1st look at Stars' lobby proves that. If it were true that a guarantee is to indicate the minimum size of the prize pool every MTT should have a guarantee, because all have a minimum # of players to start = a minimum prize pool. In reality there are satties and non-satties without a guaranteed prize pool, which is why your story doesn't hold up.

And to say that overlay is unfortunate is pretty self-centered on a forum intended for poker players and not PS staff. For players possible overlay is an obvious incentive to join a MTT.

I really don't think Pstars is out of line with their satellite guarantees.

Some tourneys (usually just prior to the target tourney) there are some offerings that are say a 40 dollar buy in to a 109. Having 3 players minimum is not unrealistic as having a tourney start with a minimum of 2 players can cause all sorts of problems to a website... none of which have anything to do with overlays.

Of course I think overlays are a good thing... and something that Pokerstars has failed to offer very much in the past few years... but overlays should be a planned thing by the site, and with a purpose in mind.

is that because of how fast the structure effectively is after addon? (not what i would expect is your reason)

or is it because pre addon play affords too much room and doesnt generate many seats relative to the time expended? (very reasonable imo)



if its the latter, im in agreement, if its the former, im suprised

Perhaps a compromise could be made... pre add on the faster structured 3xs should be the way to go... as it does help generate way more seats... post add on the blinds should be either rolled back to 5-10k or have the slowest of blind increases for the next few levels to let people get deeper stacks as players bust out.

^^ seat generation.

A small wind back after add on or making the add on 50-60k could be ok. But altering the structure post add on also likely has an impact on seat generation.

+1, i very much like this idea, get some feedback from those of us who have played tons of these and thought about the structures and their implications alot


-the option to purchase double addons (1 addon for one unit, 2 addons for 3 units?)
-additional post addon blind levels in the first 30 minutes after addon to effectively slow the structure
-some sort of action hour-ish partial rollback or repetition of blind levels

.... im sure other options of how to improve the structures would be proposed and id guess some frontrunners would quickly emerge if 5-7 of us were in a group chat for 30 minutes and discussed pros and cons of different structure changes

we all want large #s of seats generated and we all want these games to be enjoyable for recs and profitable for ourselves....

very good idea Sect7G

I think we have better be careful in general what we wish for... as some changes that would benefit the regs in the short term could end up hurting us in the long run. For example if the add-on was say 100k chips or double add-on and things stayed the exact same it would benefit us... but after a short period it would hurt our edges because more recs would stick around for the add-on, and there would be less recs taking part in these tourneys as the cost to make it to the add-on would cost recs too much money and they'd be inclined to move to other games as the original appeal of these which is "a cheap way to play the Sunday Million" would no longer be true.

It's a balancing act and there is room for tweaks... but too much change one way in the other could destroy everything.

THIS IS A GREAT IDEA!!!
+++
Lower Turbo Rake! At least the higher stakes one the 100+9 / 200+15 are pretty bad.
Up the guarantees all the tournaments are way behind of that just MAYBE would attract few extra recreational players if instead of 15-50k G there is 25-75k G

Cheers



*Repost from another topic i think this is the correct spot.

Regs have a big enough edge in the 3x sats as is. Isn't the whole point that rec players like them as well since they can win a bunch of flips after the add-on and get a seat? I don't see how slowing the structure down post add-on helps this.

not sure what to make of this

i dont think "the whole point" is to structure the games so poorly noone can have an edge?

if someone wanted those games they could go to sites where everyone is forced allin every hand untill tournaments end (they often rake the full 9% too comically)

correct me if im wrong but....
during the hour starting at the hand after addon 3xt satelites have the fastest structure of any game stars offers except those labeled "hyper" turbos


im not requesting we go to 10 minute levels....., but i would prefer the structure post addon not be "silly" relative to the time the structure requires us to invest to get there (you cannot get to this terribly structured portion of gameplay without investing a minimum of 30 minutes of table space)




and although winning a bunch of flips will win anyone anything......

i dont think repeatedly showing down light for their tournament life with hands outside their comfort zone and no move at their disposal but wagering all their chips is what the average recreational player is really looking for anyways






i agree any change would have consequences so all the angles should be thought about and discussed prior to any change being implemented

just to speculate at diferent ways recs might percieve/react to double addons tho..


i think there are gradients of how much tolerance recs have for expense in these games and how an extra addon would impact them

the one bullet type guys who prob quit on average 40 minutes in, there is really not much helping or hurting their abi, but they would like more chips/more play/time to wait for good hands the rare times they get to the addon id assume and would welcome the chance to purchase 2 addons when they get that far


the more aggressive recs willing to spend a bit more to reach addon frequently are already playing at an elevated abi as they are often are the ones gambling, actually paying attention, playing poker for 90 minutes to build big stacks during the rebuy period (and pumping in alot of units in the process.)

I would think those players who have spent 90 minutes actually playing poker hoping to stack up that 150k+/15bb+ stack so they have a better chance to run it up and win a seat are going to be frustrated more than anyone else when 10 minutes after addon blind increases have cut their stack in half (BBwise), and 25 minutes later they have 1/5th the # of blinds they spent 90 minutes trying to acquire.

(i guess that was more about speed of structure post addon)


double addon will actually probably hurt those specific rec players whether they perceive it or not, (as regs will be taking it and using it better) but their abi is already elevated, and i would assume they would likely prefer the option to purchase extra depth when they have a top 10% stack and when they came out of rebuys short. (im sure they would appreciate an extra orbit to pick a spot before being forced allin if they come out with just 2 units 2 addons)




its a discussion worth having with alot of sides to it, im glad were starting to have it

hopefully the feedback is taken into acct if there is any thought given by stars to improving these games

Double add on's are def. not the way to go imo. By having a double add on the players that actually play 90 minutes investing sometimes double digit rebuys in the hopes of acquiring a 150k stack are going to lose out as a 60k add on will close the gap percentage wise between them and the 1 hour late regging nit who is already exploiting the system.

What should be looked at is the late reg policy of being 1 hour in. This benefits the smarter players and if there's a double add on there is even less incentive to play 90 minutes which will greatly affect the number of seats guaranteed. By pushing late reg back to 45 minutes far more seats would be generated and the late reggers current advantage would be reduced. Why should players be rewarded for late regging?

As per blind levels time being slowed down... that's an interesting idea and worthy of discussion. Just reducing the increases might also work.. say adding in a 7k-14k and a 9k-18k.. after those 2 levels players remaining would be playing with a higher BB ratio... and this method won't complicate the tourney lobby... nor will it change too much for the recreational player.

youve pretty much sold me on double addon having a bad longterm impact on the game FWIW

Allowing late registration in satelites is pretty stupid tbh, and having an hour of late reg in 3xt sats is just brutally unfair on the poor dumb recreational players who don't realise how hard they're getting angled.

the pca saturday night live super satellites are pretty mislabeled

the $11 (turbo) [rd1] qualifiers to the $115 sat, are not turbo they are hyper turbo
the ones scheduled after the 18:30 gmt $115 sat dont even have a target tournament (?!)

I like the 3x sats with a better strucure post add on much better, (i.e. $1 3x to pacific rim) please make more 3x turbos like this one

about 3x turbo rebuy satties, as the saying goes, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" !!
As the most popular and successful satellite game, it would seem weird to change its structure so that regs can get better edge/roi or whatever.

tbh PS has offered great variety of games, there're lots of deep structure tourneys for players who prefer room to make moves. 3x satties are great fun, but haters gonna hate, so whatever...

while we're at it, I think PS could introduce more hypers and/or hyper rebuy satties (besides the hyper SNGs). poker is all about fun/entertainment.

its not just so my roi goes up a little bit, i wouldnt waste the effort typing for just that (oddly enough thats true, haha)

its the issue of enjoyment vs annoyance

90 minutes of play for all your blinds to dissapear in 30 minutes is the opposite of fun, thats my point.

i dont think 90%+ of the people who play these games like that aspect of them, and its not neccessary to generating the prize pool!!!! so why isnt it modified


1. i think the structure sucks because how much time you have to waste

2. i think the structure sucks because you have little room to maneuver once it matters


forcing everyone to waste way too much time, and then taking all their blinds away is frustrating, not fun



ive played alot (tens of thousands) of turbos and like turbos, why do these have the worst structure of any of them, specifically when it matters

i do have to apologize to stars tho for incinuating that this structure was unparalelled in how fast/bad it is after addon



there is one other mtt that has the exact same structure from /12,000 to 150,000





really, thats the only one ive found, everything else ive looked at has at least one extra blind level usually 3-4 extra


/12k
/14k
/18k
/24k
/30k

is 5 min extra game length, and sucks far less than

/12k
/16k
/20k
/30k


but i think adding 10 minutes to game length you can make a far better adjustment
/12
/14
/16
/20
/24
/30

Quite some Satties have a wrong speed in the tournament overview, while the speed in the lobby of that tournament is correct. As I register from the tournament overview this let me to register a tourney I didn't intend to more then once. Should be fixed asap imo. Just one example, but there are more:

@ bryan

put yourself in the shoes of a recreational player

pick which structure you prefer

250fpp's 3x turbo to the 530$ PLO/PLO8 would make a lot of people really happy, I think.
The 25fpp's 3x to the 55$ Saturday PLO do really well, so why not?

Changing the structure to a slower structure post add will not make 3x turbos "DEEP" mtts, they are still gonna be very fast, yet they give people who have survived the 90 mins as a shortstack a second chance to possibly win the thing.

+1mi