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line advice holding queens oop with a bad flop line advice holding queens oop with a bad flop

12-25-2013 , 10:24 PM
I was at a bit of a loss as to what the most ideal line is in this particular case. Opponent is 23/17, ST 50, FCB 50, F3B 67 after 66 hands. Should I have c-bet on the flop, check/fold turn if he bets? I assumed that anyone with a propensity to float might capitalize from the board texture, which is why I wanted to get to showdown without inflating the pot too much. Does the check on the river turn my hand a bit face up? Thanks.



    Poker Stars, $10 Buy-in (150/300 blinds, 40 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 8 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #21878961

    MP3: 5,898 (19.7 bb)
    CO: 7,147 (23.8 bb)
    BTN: 16,310 (54.4 bb)
    Hero (SB): 9,417 (31.4 bb)
    BB: 14,175 (47.3 bb)
    UTG+2: 22,125 (73.8 bb)
    MP1: 4,617 (15.4 bb)
    MP2: 21,493 (71.6 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is SB with Q Q
    5 folds, BTN raises to 600, Hero raises to 1,400, BB folds, BTN calls 800

    Flop: (3,420) 3 K A (2 players)
    Hero checks, BTN bets 1,200, Hero calls 1,200

    Turn: (5,820) 7 (2 players)
    Hero checks, BTN checks

    River: (5,820) 5 (2 players)
    Hero checks, BTN checks

    Spoiler:
    Results: 5,820 pot
    Final Board: 3 K A 7 5
    BTN mucked 6 6 and lost (-2,640 net)
    Hero showed Q Q and won 5,820 (3,180 net)



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    line advice holding queens oop with a bad flop Quote
    12-26-2013 , 12:48 AM
    Shade more pre. Can b/f flop, giving up on the turn because we can't really x/c. I think it's fine as played, river can be a small bet.
    line advice holding queens oop with a bad flop Quote
    12-26-2013 , 09:57 AM
    I would bet/fold the flop. As the aggressor, you are expected to hit it or represent it.
    line advice holding queens oop with a bad flop Quote
    12-26-2013 , 12:16 PM
    Usually bet this flop 100% so yeah. can go really small like 1k. then c/f turn as we have a bad hand and lots of better hands in our range
    line advice holding queens oop with a bad flop Quote
    12-26-2013 , 01:13 PM
    IMO the 3bet is too small there is little fold equity with stack sizes, and 3:1 pot odds, but I hate playing OOP even with premium cards. I feel like a cbet OTF is obligatory in this spot, but Ax & Kx are a large part of his range here so checking flop is reasonable, and your hand is too strong to give up to just one barrel.
    You played it well but could have been played marginally better.
    line advice holding queens oop with a bad flop Quote
    12-26-2013 , 01:24 PM
    I actually like the way you played

    letīs be resultsoriented for once
    with his hand he either folds to your cbet and u win less, or he floats the flop to bet turn or bluffraises flop where u lose the hand in both situations
    this way you got extra money out of a no equity hand and still won the hand
    line advice holding queens oop with a bad flop Quote
    12-26-2013 , 04:52 PM
    +1 ^
    line advice holding queens oop with a bad flop Quote
    12-26-2013 , 05:03 PM
    seems fine to chk/call flop to his open/call 3bet range but it prob isnt a hugely profitable spot so i wouldnt hate a fold.
    i think there is a discussion to be had about flatting pre. most btn open ranges are silly wide and we have a hand that is strong enough to slowplay against this range w the only major drawback being that bb gets to complete action for cheap. yes when villain has 77-JJ or AJo we would be making a mistake by not pushing the action but what about the majority of the time when villain has ~20% equity and will fold to our 3bet? we are short enough that i dont think we will get outplayed too often so im not afraid of letting villain play a wide range ip. i guess the real question is does this make our flat/3bet from sb ranges too unbalanced and transparent but i dont mind someone w 66 hands on us having a possible exploit vs our 30bb game
    line advice holding queens oop with a bad flop Quote
    12-26-2013 , 05:43 PM
    Flatting pre seems pretty bad as he usually calls the 3-bet in position and doesn't put you on that strong a range. The postflop bets in MTTs these days are small, so you need to build the pot preflop.
    line advice holding queens oop with a bad flop Quote
    12-26-2013 , 05:51 PM
    Generally like how you played it...don't think you can c/f OTF to such a weak bet, but do think if he bet anything > 1/3 psb you gotta fold OTT. Don't think I see value in leading small on the river, as played; too many Ks and weak As will look you up. Think if you do choose to lead you might be better to shove (we have around 1 PSB right?) and chase out some hands that might call 2k bets.
    line advice holding queens oop with a bad flop Quote
    12-26-2013 , 06:04 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by betgo
    Flatting pre seems pretty bad as he usually calls the 3-bet in position and doesn't put you on that strong a range. The postflop bets in MTTs these days are small, so you need to build the pot preflop.
    fold to 3bet 67% doesnt make me think he calls most of the time. and the fact that his range is widest on the btn makes me think we will fold too many of his J5s J9o and the like. also even w 1/3rd-1/2pot bets being standard i feel like if we want to gii we can do it at anytime post w a chk/raise. if we dont get to chk/raise cus they chk behind we often wouldnt get value out of the raise
    line advice holding queens oop with a bad flop Quote
    12-26-2013 , 06:04 PM
    3bet bigger pre. I'd much rather bet/fold or check/fold than check/call.
    line advice holding queens oop with a bad flop Quote
    12-28-2013 , 09:04 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lissistinkt
    I actually like the way you played

    letīs be resultsoriented for once
    with his hand he either folds to your cbet and u win less, or he floats the flop to bet turn or bluffraises flop where u lose the hand in both situations
    this way you got extra money out of a no equity hand and still won the hand
    should c/f flop or barrel some runouts.
    dont be ridiculous Christopher.
    line advice holding queens oop with a bad flop Quote

          
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