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JJ LOL DONKAMENTS? JJ LOL DONKAMENTS?

11-09-2007 , 12:10 AM
I don't really play tournaments but decided to play the 50+5 6max donkament on stars.

Villian is a 36.2/23.4/3
Very very very active on the FT bubble.

Poker Stars, $50 + $5 NL Hold'em Tournament, 500/1,000 Blinds, 6 Players
LeggoPoker Hand History Converter

SB: 18,900
BB: 75,171
UTG: 3,817
MP: 47,780
Hero (CO): 21,154
BTN: 25,178

Pre-Flop: (2,100) J J dealt to Hero (CO)
2 folds, Hero raises to 2,750, 2 folds, BB calls 1,750

Flop: (6,600) 6 A A (2 Players)
BB checks, Hero bets 3,333, BB calls 3,333

Turn: (13,266) 4 (2 Players)
BB checks, Hero checks

River: (13,266) 2 (2 Players)
BB bets 43,000

How bad is my turn check?
How bad is a river fold?
How bad is a river call?
JJ LOL DONKAMENTS? Quote
11-09-2007 , 12:15 AM
I absolutely hate this spot. I really can't see a hand that you can beat here... I can't make the river call... but i'm such a tight ass... check on turn isn't bad imo. I'd fold.
JJ LOL DONKAMENTS? Quote
11-09-2007 , 12:20 AM
I know I'm being a nit, but I raise to 2.5k pf. I check the flop hoping to keep the pot small and prey for a cheap showdown as you're at a difficult chip position. Also you give villain a chance to bluff on the turn with position. If you think villain will call your flop bet with hands you beat, then bet the flop with the intention of check/calling anything, if you can't call an all in then don't bet the flop. As played I check the turn. The river is tough, if villain is a thinking player he knows you're pot stuck and has at worst trips. I fold the river, I think he's got you beat here almost all the time. Were there any antes? If so I shove pf.
JJ LOL DONKAMENTS? Quote
11-09-2007 , 12:26 AM
Quote:
I know I'm being a nit, but I raise to 2.5k pf. I check the flop hoping to keep the pot small and prey for a cheap showdown as you're at a difficult chip position. Also you give villain a chance to bluff on the turn with position. If you think villain will call your flop bet with hands you beat, then bet the flop with the intention of check/calling anything, if you can't call an all in then don't bet the flop. As played I check the turn. The river is tough, if villain is a thinking player he knows you're pot stuck and has at worst trips. I fold the river, I think he's got you beat here almost all the time. Were there any antes? If so I shove pf.
level?
JJ LOL DONKAMENTS? Quote
11-09-2007 , 12:33 AM
Call river. I don't think he flats many Aces PF with those stats and I think his range on the river has a ton of stuff you beat (77-TT, bluffs)
JJ LOL DONKAMENTS? Quote
11-09-2007 , 12:38 AM
This is tough because your turn check makes it so easy for him to bluff the river. And for that reason I call.
JJ LOL DONKAMENTS? Quote
11-09-2007 , 12:44 AM
Quote:
Quote:
I know I'm being a nit, but I raise to 2.5k pf. I check the flop hoping to keep the pot small and prey for a cheap showdown as you're at a difficult chip position. Also you give villain a chance to bluff on the turn with position. If you think villain will call your flop bet with hands you beat, then bet the flop with the intention of check/calling anything, if you can't call an all in then don't bet the flop. As played I check the turn. The river is tough, if villain is a thinking player he knows you're pot stuck and has at worst trips. I fold the river, I think he's got you beat here almost all the time. Were there any antes? If so I shove pf.
level?
Nope a serious post, hope it made sense. I don't write as well as I think. Here's my thinking if you bet the flop it's going in vs this type of villain. It really depends on your read. Also if there is an ante you probably have an M around 10 then I just ship it pf. I personally check the flop as bad players will call with Ax (I don't know if this is a bad player). If you bet, what worse hands call? If this villain is capable of calling your bet with middle and small pps, suited big cards then you're going to call on the river and I like your flop bet. If villain will fold his smaller pps and suited big cards then check to induce a bluff on the turn.
JJ LOL DONKAMENTS? Quote
11-09-2007 , 12:45 AM
We only need 34% equity to break even. Pretty easy call IMO.
JJ LOL DONKAMENTS? Quote
11-09-2007 , 12:58 AM
you're really calling this sherman? I think it looks like he has an ace, considers trips the nuts, and wanted to crai the turn. I don't see us being ahead 2/3 of the time, I'd drop it.
JJ LOL DONKAMENTS? Quote
11-09-2007 , 01:05 AM
Remember guys, villain's river bet is really only a PSB because of hero's stack size, so we're getting 2:1. I'm also in the camp that likes a check on the flop. Given villain's image, the fact that we practically begged him to try to take the pot from us, and the pot odds, I think the river is a mandatory call. I mean we bet pretty weak on the flop (I like the bet size for this board, but it still looks weak) then checked behind on the turn, our line looks like absolutely nothing. Anyway, I can't fold here.
JJ LOL DONKAMENTS? Quote
11-09-2007 , 01:42 AM
Quote:
you're really calling this sherman? I think it looks like he has an ace, considers trips the nuts, and wanted to crai the turn. I don't see us being ahead 2/3 of the time, I'd drop it.
We don't have to be ahead 2/3 of the time. We have to win 1/3.

Sherman
JJ LOL DONKAMENTS? Quote
11-09-2007 , 02:40 AM
id fold.. villain isnt bluffing here v often and isnt calling flop w/o an ace v often... also, utg is v short so this might be +$ev if this is the final table
JJ LOL DONKAMENTS? Quote
11-09-2007 , 02:51 AM
Really hard to understand how many people are saying fold here with villains stats and the pot odds. Calling here everytime.
JJ LOL DONKAMENTS? Quote
11-09-2007 , 03:21 AM
Given your read that BB is very active/agrro, there might not be much value in betting this flop, since he's prob 3-betting pre with almost all of the Ax hands that are good enough to call your raise. The best way to get value from worse hands is to check the flop and bet, or call most turns. On the river his range is polarized to 66/aces full and bluffs, so calling isn't bad at all IMO, given the odds that you're getting.
JJ LOL DONKAMENTS? Quote
11-09-2007 , 03:55 AM
I'd get sucked in to a call here, but I'd hate it.
JJ LOL DONKAMENTS? Quote
11-09-2007 , 04:13 AM
Quote:
Really hard to understand how many people are saying fold here with villains stats and the pot odds. Calling here everytime.
regarding villains stats I call here, though painfully. Call and get mad when he shows 66 or 44.
JJ LOL DONKAMENTS? Quote
11-09-2007 , 04:19 AM
Quote:
Villian is a 36.2/23.4/3
Very very very active on the FT bubble.

Quote:
This is tough because your turn check makes it so easy for him to bluff the river. And for that reason I call.
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We only need 34% equity to break even. Pretty easy call IMO.
JJ LOL DONKAMENTS? Quote
11-09-2007 , 05:21 AM
With these stats not reraising preflop in the BB i don't give villain much credit for an ace here, so I think betting the flop is fine.

Turn check is also good imo as we will see a lot bluffs on the river.

River is an easy call.
JJ LOL DONKAMENTS? Quote
11-09-2007 , 05:51 AM
No one's thinkng about the flush draw here? For this reason, I think I play it the same, but call on river. Maybe a bit more pre and a bit more on the flop.
JJ LOL DONKAMENTS? Quote
11-09-2007 , 06:03 AM
I like pf / flop / turn, now call the river and berate his A2o.

Edit: it's pretty clear you don't have an Ace, so he could be (probably is) betting a wide range here on the river expecting you to fold a large % of the time.
JJ LOL DONKAMENTS? Quote
11-09-2007 , 09:25 AM
I like preflop. I like the postflop line provided you call river. I'll try & say something which isn't repetitive:
(i) He can CRAI on flop for the same size as here, are we calling there?
(ii) Hero's line doesn't look as weak as has been suggested. There are various different lines which you can take with an Ace on this board & bet flop; check turn is one, and yes I realise that some tiny part of his range is a flush draw.
(iii) I'm an active villian who likes to abuse all forms of bubbles, "we" like to see flops & 'outplay' you there as well when there's no decent way of reraising, like with Ax in the BB here. So villian can definitely have an Ace. Since villain is OOP & a turn shove from you would only be a PSB villain really shouldn't have total air here. If he flopped the flush draw he surely CRAI. He surely doesn't shove river with one extra pair letting you play perfectly. So actually I don't hate a fold, even though I did when I first started writing. I probably still call though, I'm reading too far into this & villains range is actually wide & varied even if it shouldn't be.
Edit to add (iv) I think preflop is best, but with a slightly more specific read I'd be tempted to go 3.7-4K preflop to induce a resteal, because you're raise size whilst generally best here does/should limit his aggression preflop with air.
JJ LOL DONKAMENTS? Quote
11-09-2007 , 11:59 AM
You people saying fold, if villain has a big hand, what is he putting us on that will call a river shove? From where I sit, our hand is at the very tip top of our range considering how we played the hand, and obviously a lot of you would even fold this here.
JJ LOL DONKAMENTS? Quote
11-09-2007 , 12:07 PM
I think is a call.

We know

1. Villian has been active on the button, so udnerstand that people fold more often on bubble and dont like to put whole stack at risk. He's also been putting pressure on people with his stack.

2. We seem pretty weak from our line.

3. He puts us all in on the river, applying as much pressure as he can.

Would he really do that with an ace if he wants a call? I don't think so. He's trying to make us fold, we have a good hand, so call.
JJ LOL DONKAMENTS? Quote
11-09-2007 , 12:23 PM
First of all, in spots like this, I lean toward a flop check in position. I'm not looking to balloon the pot because if I head to the turn and check, the river is going to suuuuck. I don't want this to be a three street afair - cut it down to two. Boards with paired aces, it's like, if you lead when you have one, you get paid here; if you lead when you don't have one, you find yourself in trouble.

The river is a call. I don't know what my stack needs to be to let this go, but at 17K and with his big stack and a missed flush draw and your check on the turn, this is a perfect opportunity for him to lead OOP and pick up the pot. In fact, I can't see a reasonable competing justification for a fold here.

Barry
JJ LOL DONKAMENTS? Quote
11-09-2007 , 05:45 PM
bump
JJ LOL DONKAMENTS? Quote

      
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