Okay, this is one of those rare spots I actually folded....but now I'm rethinking it...looking back I really hate folding this and need some thoughts please...

I had been playing pretty solid so far, nothing crazy.. the hand exactly before this, UTG1, and UTG2 had limped (two very weak straightforward players) Mp1 isoed and I 3bet, taking it down.

Anyway, in this hand SB had only opened once uncontested so far previously and he had no reason to think that I was isoing very light.. the UTG1 caller was very passive but clearly inexperienced and can easily be calling off here with small pairs etc



Poker Stars $20+$2 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t150/t300 Blinds + t25 - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG: t8885 M = 13.16
UTG+1: t11490 M = 17.02
UTG+2: t10538 M = 15.61
Hero (MP1): t15478 M = 22.93
MP2: t20284 M = 30.05
CO: t7477 M = 11.08
BTN: t12771 M = 18.92
SB: t12837 M = 19.02
BB: t18016 M = 26.69

Pre Flop: (t675) Hero is MP1 with J J
UTG calls t300, UTG+1 calls t300, 1 fold, Hero raises to t1660, 3 folds, SB raises to t12812 all in, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls t11165 all in, 1 fold

Flop: (t25415) T 4 2 (2 players - 2 are all in)

Turn: (t25415) 9 (2 players - 2 are all in)

River: (t25415) 4 (2 players - 2 are all in)

nh

doubt this can ever be a good call tbh.

not to say somedays i dont snap it off. but i think its a leak when i do. even if i do fade 8 outs.

Wp IMO.. And it's 6 outs not 8, if your talking about AK.. QQ+ I think he's 3betting, he could definately be doing this with 1010,99,88,77,66 and definately AK AQs.

With an all in and call in front of me I fold JJ. I would figure one of them has QQ+. Even if you open up their ranges significantly your probably 35% to win the hand at best.

Meh, the fold is fine, but I call this more frequently then a lot of people because I'm giving UTG almost zero credit for a hand is ahead of JJ here.

I get beat on a lot for it, but I see a weird/weakish A or a small pair out of UTG+1 here a ton of the time so I consider calling if my read is that SB will do this as a squeeze or with a range that JJ beats.

hmm okie, fwiw sb had 88 and utg1 called off with AJo which is what made me second guess myself of course.

the overlimp caller is obv a dumbass and SB is like TT+ AQs+ AKo at worst so prob call.

I didn't see the utg +1 call but still think it's a call... If he's trapping then wp for him

If I think that SB is pretty snug here I would fold, it's a close one tough.

Ya. I'd def be calling QQ. I like the fold here given the info though.

UTG+1 limp call for 40 bb makes me want too fold the jokers.

UTG+1 limp/call is exactly what makes me want to call with JJ, this is a trap with AA/KK so infrequently.

Hands like AJ or 77 are a lot more likely.

WTF ackytown is folding but im calling whats happening

yeah i just dont give credit to overlimpers...

Yeah, I'd call. Folding can't be terrible though.

seems like a really easy call im shocked that ppl want to fold here

utg+1 range is all crap low pairs (no he never has a better pair and his frequency having AQ/KQ typish hands is inrecedibly low, we def have him beat like always)

and I dont think SB is overshoving AA/KK there, well yeah he'll do it a small amount but in general people do not overshove 40bbs there and try to make a smaller 3bet to get value. people do not balance the overshove range, esp randoms dont do it.

also the isosize pre is too big.

and honestly I think folding here is pretty bad, unless there is reason to believe that the SB is cabable of balancing his range in a way that he'll overshove his entire range, which he wont do much.

you people give a random way too much credit for being able to balance his overshove range and stuff like that

shocked that you are saying this Karl Pretty sure he almost never has a smaller pair and this is a good fold.

huh wat, hes overlimping, how does he has us beat ever? hes not overlimping a bigger pair ever. he doesnt have AK ever either, so theres very few hands in his range we're even flipping with, all the other hands we're in front of

oh thought it was an openlimp!

^So what types of hands do we think a random in SB's place 3bet shoves? I guess I personally expect him to show up with QQ+, AK a lot there because I would shove those hands there (and wider) but perhaps he will 3bet smaller with his big pairs and his shoving range is polarized towards AK, TT-QQ.

Reminds me of a hand that ssnyc posted a while back, the one where he flipped places with the villain and we debated calling AKo to a cold 4bet shove; in the end he decided that the cold 4bet shove looked more like the weaker range I gave above as opposed to AA, KK.

IMO, from what I've seen of utg1 previously, his overlimp/call there is really transparent/station-y and is never a range that beats JJ. So that isn't really a question for me.

It's more about sb's shoving range here that bothers me, (how often is he really going to be lighter?) it was a really close decision for me in folding and one that may have cost me the entire tournament since I ended up finishing 44th or something by shoving KQo into AQ..sb vs an active button 20bb effective.

Errr, I thought it was an openlimp, too.

Then it's a call, but I'd fold tens.

+1

Everyone who thinks the UTG+1 villain's overlimp/call is the reason to consider folding JJ here is remembering that one time it was a tarp with AA and forgetting the 99 times it's 77 or ATs.

I mean, I think this hand all boils down the the range/reads on the SB, not UTG+1. Vs a random I have a really hard time letting JJ go, although TT is a swearing fold and QQ is a pretty confident call. I spew hard with JJ, but if there's any indication SB will make this play with AQ or a lower pair then I have a hard time throwing this away, and vs a random his range to squeeze here could easily be wide enough to give us the equity to call with JJ.

I mean, it's not a comfortable spot to be sure, but it's not a snap fold with JJ either.

Yeah UTG+1 limp/calling only brings it closer to a call b/c he's dead money.