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Interesting spots with KK and AK Interesting spots with KK and AK

11-08-2008 , 08:51 PM
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $5.00+$0.50 Tournament, 100/200 Blinds 25 Ante (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO (t23720)
Button (t10005)
SB (t8025)
BB (t28887)
Hero (UTG) (t8565)
UTG+1 (t5635)
MP1 (t12540)
MP2 (t13895)
MP3 (t16130)

Hero's M: 16.31

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A, K
Hero calls t200, UTG+1 calls t200, 2 folds, MP3 calls t200, CO calls t200, 2 folds, BB checks

Flop: (t1325) 6, J, J (5 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP3 bets t600, 2 folds, Hero calls t600, UTG+1 calls t600

Turn: (t3125) K (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP3 checks

River: (t3125) Q (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets t4810 (All-In), 1 fold, Hero folds

Total pot: t3125

Was hoping to limp reraise, but nobody raised
44/17 LAG bets in LP; do I still have to fold, or I should call and evaluate? Obv getting overcalled, I'm puke folding river.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $5.00+$0.50 Tournament, 100/200 Blinds 25 Ante (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG (t27875)
UTG+1 (t9680)
MP1 (t7800)
MP2 (t19302)
Hero (MP3) (t4940)
CO (t17445)
Button (t12115)
SB (t13570)
BB (t14675)

Hero's M: 9.41

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K, K
4 folds, Hero raises to t600, 2 folds, SB calls t500, 1 fold

Flop: (t1625) 8, A, 10 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

Turn: (t1625) 4 (2 players)
SB bets t800, Hero calls t800

River: (t3225) 2 (2 players)
SB bets t2000, Hero calls t2000

Total pot: t7225

Stuck...not sure whether checking flop is correct or not, but as played, what's my line on turn and river?

Last edited by swifttarrow; 11-08-2008 at 08:57 PM.
Interesting spots with KK and AK Quote
11-08-2008 , 08:55 PM
Hand 1: Why aren't you raising preflop? Wait, don't answer, there's no reason not to raise preflop.

Why are you calling on the flop? Wait, don't answer, there's no reason to call this flop.

River is standard.

Hand 2: Fold river. Everything else is good.

Last edited by PageUp; 11-08-2008 at 09:00 PM. Reason: you added the KK hand
Interesting spots with KK and AK Quote
11-08-2008 , 08:57 PM
Preflop: Why limp? You have a good hand, right?
Flop: Not only do you not have odds to draw to 6 outs + a possible BDFD, they're also very dirty, too. Fold!
Turn: You hit your out, seize the initiative and protect it.
River: Please V-bet! Now that you face the shove, the fold is the only right play you made with the hand.

Way to mangle all 4 betting rounds.
Interesting spots with KK and AK Quote
11-08-2008 , 09:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thamel18
River: Please V-bet! Now that you face the shove, the fold is the only right play you made with the hand.
I'd agree if pot were HU, but since river is 3 handed I think c/f > b/f
Interesting spots with KK and AK Quote
11-08-2008 , 09:37 PM
hand1: i was trying to limp reraise. The table seemed reasonably aggressive. I can't call even if I suspect the guy's bluffing? (I mean, his VPIP is 44...) Is it because pot is multiway? (and no, I'm not drawing, I think I have the best hand against him, but not sure about the field...)
Interesting spots with KK and AK Quote
11-08-2008 , 09:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by swifttarrow
hand1: i was trying to limp reraise. The table seemed reasonably aggressive. I can't call even if I suspect the guy's bluffing? (I mean, his VPIP is 44...) Is it because pot is multiway? (and no, I'm not drawing, I think I have the best hand against him, but not sure about the field...)
Limp/reraising is only viable if you hate money. As for flatting the flop, I don't care if you think you're ahead of villain's range; there's a player still to act and you're OOP for the rest of the hand. Flatting here is awful.

As for the river, of course you think he's bluffing, otherwise why would you even ask about whether or not you should call? Given the way this thread has gone, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you did call and he was bluffing, but I still think it's a bad call. Villain has to be bluffing more than 1/3 of the time in this spot, and I just don't think he's going to be.
Interesting spots with KK and AK Quote
11-08-2008 , 10:24 PM
pageup - uh, I think you got the action wrong in hand 1. There's a late position bet, I call thinking he's bluffing, and a 3rd guy overcalls. The 3rd guy shoves river, and I obv fold (I can't think of a hand I beat that he would overcall with on the flop, and by the river fd or J is beating me). Why is limp reraising AK lighting money on fire? I thought it was standard...The alternative is I raise (which is also +EV), but I was worried getting flatted by a lot of loose players and having to play out of position. Didn't think limping was that bad...(obv it is if table is passive)
Interesting spots with KK and AK Quote
11-08-2008 , 10:44 PM
stop being fancy...seems to be trend in your hands...play them str8 and hard and fast
Interesting spots with KK and AK Quote
11-09-2008 , 12:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by swifttarrow
pageup - uh, I think you got the action wrong in hand 1. There's a late position bet, I call thinking he's bluffing, and a 3rd guy overcalls. The 3rd guy shoves river, and I obv fold (I can't think of a hand I beat that he would overcall with on the flop, and by the river fd or J is beating me).
I definitely do not have the action wrong in hand one, and I tried to explain why "I call thinking he's bluffing" is a idiotic justification for that atrocious flop call.

Quote:
Originally Posted by swifttarrow
Why is limp reraising AK lighting money on fire? I thought it was standard...The alternative is I raise (which is also +EV), but I was worried getting flatted by a lot of loose players and having to play out of position. Didn't think limping was that bad...(obv it is if table is passive)
1. Raising and having lots of terrible players flat is good. And given that you only have ~40bbs, playing the hand OOP is not particularly difficult.

2. Calculating the EV of limp/reraising should take into account the chips you spew off in situations like this.

3. Limp/reraising tends to kill your action when it works, which shouldn't be your goal when you're holding a monster.

4. Um... how often do you find tables in SSMTTs that aren't loose/passive preflop.
Interesting spots with KK and AK Quote
11-09-2008 , 12:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssnyc
stop being fancy...seems to be trend in your hands...play them str8 and hard and fast
This.
Interesting spots with KK and AK Quote
11-09-2008 , 12:34 AM
hand 1 is legit wtf
Interesting spots with KK and AK Quote
11-09-2008 , 08:37 AM
1) Raise pre and fold flop I am capable of playing AK as spewy as anyone and I fold that flop pretty much all the time

2) Well played if you fold river
Interesting spots with KK and AK Quote
11-09-2008 , 08:38 AM
The limp re-raise trick is a good move to pull out occasionally with an aggressive table with just the right pre-conditions. I don't usually like it because it takes away from my "he's raising again...I hate that arse monkey" table image. In one of these....it's rarely a good move.

He made a bet of about 2/3 of the pot on that flop. What range do you put him on?

Coud have a weak Ace or some other holding that whiffed and trying to buy the pot....your hoping it's this...

Could have flush draw....your kinda hoping it's this...but with Ace high you'll have have a hard time pricing him out because he could have....

A middle pocket pair. Or middle connectors with a J.....In case your either drawing slim or drawing very slim. (Based on the bet I think middle pocket pair is very likely...but I wasn't there)

Depending on your read this is either an easy fold or a close call. Let's give you the benefit of the doubt here....but I think the fold is usually right.

By calling the flop...and then checking the turn when you hit the 6 outer....I want to reach out and slap you. If you are going to call the flop...assuming his river bet was the favorable scenario...why in the name of all things holy check!!!???!!!! That is horrible.

River fold is standard.

On second hand....Preflop standard....flop check is fine but prefer a C-Bet/value here. Let's find out right now whether he has either an Ace or a draw right now.

Turn call is fine with your flush draw. River....looks like a fold to me. But the villain has played the hand pretty oddly so I can see why you are suspicious of the river bet. He probably hit a flush on the turn though....
Interesting spots with KK and AK Quote

      
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