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03-03-2010 , 12:56 PM

Dantes

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 10,833

first hand I've played with villain, he's a scandi.

Full Tilt Poker $17,500 KO Guarantee No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t30/t60 Blinds - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BB: t7815 M = 86.83
UTG: t3645 M = 40.50
UTG+1: t3610 M = 40.11
UTG+2: t1380 M = 15.33
MP1: t2390 M = 26.56
MP2: t7350 M = 81.67
CO: t1080 M = 12
BTN: t7080 M = 78.67
Hero (SB): t6375 M = 70.83

Pre Flop: (t90) Hero is SB with A

4 folds, MP2 raises to t120, 2 folds, Hero raises to t420, 1 fold, MP2 calls t300

Flop: (t900) 8

(2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks

Turn: (t900) 2

(2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks

River: (t900) K

(2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks

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03-03-2010 , 12:58 PM

unrealzeal

banned

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 13,990

i don't see any reason not to bet the turn and i'm only occasionally checking the flop

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03-03-2010 , 12:58 PM

davethedave2

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 4,397

Bet flop for protection and value.

Obv board ran out shockingly bad but need to bet somewhere along the line.

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03-03-2010 , 01:01 PM

ssnyc

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 38,129

this is fine

betting flop sucks cause we hate life when raised
same with turn
river we are now bluffing and don't feel like bluffing so

nh...unconventional but ok

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03-03-2010 , 01:03 PM

Texas Chuck

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 6,237

I play exactlky the same on every street. Terrible flop for AA.

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03-03-2010 , 01:05 PM

Dantes

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 10,833

so, we bet flop, he flats turn comes as above (or even a brick really) and we check call?

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03-03-2010 , 01:06 PM

Dantes

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 10,833

I'm really not sure what to do, not trying to be cute...

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03-03-2010 , 01:06 PM

jiggybluff

Minraising Warrior

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 8,685

would b/f the turn, dont see anythign we beat that takes a c/c c/r line

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03-03-2010 , 01:08 PM

unrealzeal

banned

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 13,990

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssnyc

this is fine

betting flop sucks cause we hate life when raised
same with turn
river we are now bluffing and don't feel like bluffing so

nh...unconventional but ok

he flat called, checked the flop and now that a third heart has gotten aboard there are a ton of draws we are ahead of that call or raise a turn bet, we love life when we are raised or called on this turn, checking the flop is fine checking the turn is terrible

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03-03-2010 , 01:11 PM

#10

Dantes

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 10,833

lol... seriously, I am laughing.

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03-03-2010 , 01:12 PM

#11

Dantes

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 10,833

lol, are you from CA? they have sweet medical cannabis there I hear

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03-03-2010 , 01:14 PM

#12

Hood-Flat

adept

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,197

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssnyc

this is fine

betting flop sucks cause we hate life when raised
same with turn
river we are now bluffing and don't feel like bluffing so

nh...unconventional but ok

hmm, but I still want to bet the flop so badly; even if they raise us on the flop I think we can still get it all in likely being a 2.3:1 dog.

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03-03-2010 , 01:17 PM

#13

Dantes

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 10,833

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Rogers

hmm, but I still want to bet the flop so badly; even if they raise us on the flop I think we can still get it all in likely being a 2.3:1 dog.

I don't understand what this means.

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03-03-2010 , 01:18 PM

#14

davethedave2

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 4,397

Im missing something here (not uncommon).

Its a bad, but not terrible, flop for AA.

We have every reason to believe our hand good on flop and no reads that villain will do something aggo with a worse hand to push us off.

So why would we not bet flop for value (good chance we are in front) and protection (there are so many bad turn cards) ?

Sure theres a risk that villain puts us in a tricky spot by raising but we also put ourselves in a load of tricky spots on turn by giving him a free card.

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03-03-2010 , 01:20 PM

#15

unrealzeal

banned

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 13,990

not tryin' to offend but this is a standard bet/3b turn after checking the flop...hands that get here have to play now for example, what if he set mines with 7

then he has to change his pf plan of set mining and call for value and raise for FE + your range here should have unmade AK/AQ hands so i suggest taking this hand to the cash forum and watch them puke over not betting the turn

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03-03-2010 , 01:21 PM

#16

Dantes

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 10,833

just played this hand with villain, may have had a slightly different read this time

Full Tilt Poker $17,500 KO Guarantee No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t40/t80 Blinds - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN: t8125 M = 67.71
SB: t3435 M = 28.62
BB: t2280 M = 19
UTG: t1290 M = 10.75
UTG+1: t3250 M = 27.08
UTG+2: t7203 M = 60.02
MP1: t6375 M = 53.12
MP2: t6990 M = 58.25
Hero (CO): t8392 M = 69.93

Pre Flop: (t120) Hero is CO with 9

2 folds, UTG+2 calls t80, 2 folds, Hero raises to t300, 3 folds, UTG+2 raises to t720, Hero calls t420

Flop: (t1560) 2

(2 players)
UTG+2 checks, Hero bets t420, UTG+2 calls t420

Turn: (t2400) Q

(2 players)
UTG+2 bets t480, Hero raises to t7252 all in,

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03-03-2010 , 01:31 PM

#17

Hood-Flat

adept

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,197

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dantes

I don't understand what this means.

oopsie, I meant 2.3:1 favorite.

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03-03-2010 , 01:36 PM

#18

davethedave2

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 4,397

Quote:

Originally Posted by unrealzeal

not tryin' to offend but this is a standard bet/3b turn after checking the flop...hands that get here have to play now for example, what if he set mines with 7

Sure that makes sense but why are we not also v betting flop ? I understand value checking and we won't get 3 streets of value,etc. But we have prob best hand on draw heavy board

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03-03-2010 , 01:41 PM

#19

Dantes

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 10,833

unreal, care to offer a range for villain raising us on the turn?

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03-03-2010 , 01:42 PM

#20

Jiggymike

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 13,420

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiggybluff

would b/f the turn, dont see anythign we beat that takes a c/c c/r line

Yeah I like b/f the turn, probably the only spot to get value here.

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03-03-2010 , 01:45 PM

#21

Dantes

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 10,833

and no, 77 is not an acceptable answer. I mean I guess you could add it into stove to account for random spazz factor, but I think 77 raises a turn bet like <10% of the time

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03-03-2010 , 01:47 PM

#22

Dantes

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 10,833

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiggymike

Yeah I like b/f the turn, probably the only spot to get value here.

I think that's a very reasonable line to take. I just felt in this spott I'd make more vs a scandi by turning my hand into a bluff catcher

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03-03-2010 , 01:49 PM

#23

Jiggymike

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 13,420

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dantes

I think that's a very reasonable line to take. I just felt in this spott I'd make more vs a scandi by turning my hand into a bluff catcher

7K post ITT.

Are you expecting him to bluff the turn then?

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03-03-2010 , 01:51 PM

#24

jchauvin

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 4,761

Definitely bet the flop, I'd expect any of the million pair plus draw combos to check back usually and you're only beat by JTs and sets.

Quote

03-03-2010 , 02:00 PM

#25

unrealzeal

banned

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 13,990

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dantes

unreal, care to offer a range for villain raising us on the turn?

checking the flop is fine it depends on our image but we have no image yet and our range is unpaired hands too and the deck favors unpaired hands and it's fine to define the board a little more on the turn to start the betting action

he can raise the turn with just a heart like the A of hearts or KQ with the K of hearts any pair+FD is raisable on the turn + pure air on a scary board way more hands that raise the turn you are ahead of than behind if he has you beat cooler -- so far you are repping AK type unpaired hand as your range for above should be the same pleeeeeeeeeeeassssssssssseeee bet turn

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