Thanks for coming into the thread and posting authoritatively without reading a single post including my OP, Frank.

Please, no one show this thread to Larry Bird. Todd Terry is white so Bird would instantly offer him a contract.

My greatest basketball accomplishment was finishing 2nd in my age group in my town's annual shooting competition at the age of 9, you guys are probably safe.

Just let it go. It's annoying but that's clearly the best way to handle this situation.

edit: I don't think there was anything malicious in their actions it was probably just incompetence. Give the nice karma tip to the dealers who don't make that much money and you will be rewarded in the future. Or spend lots of your own time trying to get $1200 that you may never get.

Clearly.

i used to wait tables and once a table left me a tip in cash and on their credit card. they had a lot to drink and didn't mean to leave additional tip on the credit card and called the restaurant and we gave the money back.

I mean it was late and I skimmed it all fast. Either way I still say it was your fault, don't really see how there being $688 in fees isn't enough to not tip.

If I had studied the receipt I wouldn't have left a tip, hope that helps. I don't understand how you attribute "fault" to failure to study an ambiguous receipt especially in light of general industry practice and how when assigning blame here failure to study a receipt receives greater weight than a casino employee lying to my face, but again thanks for your input.

If this casino has cash games and todd plays cash games, id feel kind of obligated to go play some tip free cash games at this casino (until the would of been tips add up to 1200), unless they make it up to him. I wouldn't take it out on another casino though.

I think he posted that he is never around this casino so not sure if this would work.

calling a receipt where the bottom line is 10k "ambiguous" is a bit of a stretch.

What is a player fee?

The definition of "player fee" and "administrative fee" is very ambiguous. Where is it clear that "player fee" = "tip"?

The crux of the issue is NOT whether TT was wrong in not looking at or in how he interpreted the receipt. The issue is that he asked very specifically and was given incorrect information. That's the wrong that need repairing.

I stand by my early statement that the TD has offered to "make it right", he just won't cut a cheque. I think there's some room to meet in the middle here.

OT

Fine Todd, I agree it was wrong for the employee to misinform you regarding the withholding % and then lie about it. I could also understand not reading anything on your receipt other than table and seat # and not having it on you when you go to collect your winnings. But given that it does have this information on here, and you are supposed to read it:
Should they refund your money to correct this? It'd be nice of them.
Are they required to? No.

I don't really see how you don't read stuff like that on the receipt though. It's the only piece of paper that shows you are even in the tournament. Especially being a $10k main event, I'd look it over a bit more seriously.

Frank stick to calling 3bets OOP fot 17% of your stack with AJ and leave the law stuff to me.

Todd I read the first page and skipped to the 10th but if you haven't already you won't get your money back - you really shouldn't. Its really your word against one of their employees - there is no record of the tip, assuming it was paid in cash, so what do you expect them to do? If anything its really a learning experience for future events - look at the receipt before you tip - if there are any questions ask the TD - its nice of them to offer some comps or whatever they'll do and I think thats all you can expect. Take your free rooms/tournament buy ins/etc for next year and move on

OOOO SNAP
qffot

Well I don't feel you're at fault here, but the employee sounded incompetent - doubt he intentionally lied to you. With that said, most casino employees are morons, so when you're dealing with a 1200 dollar tip, it's probably prudent to look at the receipt and talk to someone of higher authority to get the last word. I mean oral agreements in small claims court is basically bull**** so I don't see how you have any merit here - of course the casino is going to beleive their employee, otherwise that would set a real bad precedent. It sucks but what can ya do

I dont have anything of value to add, but they totally owe you $1200 imo!

also i think it's good that you're willing to go through this PITA to maybe even get it back.

no security tapes in the area where they took tips?

This is a bit of a stretch imo.

Sure he could have studied the reciept till he memorized every bit of information on there, but at the same time the employee that lied to him could have told the truth.

I think the people running the tournament should be much more responsible for not defrauding their customers, than Todd should be for reading his reciept more closely.

But that's just like, my opinion man.

love that TFT

de·fraud (d-frôd)
tr.v. de·fraud·ed, de·fraud·ing, de·frauds
To take something from by fraud; swindle: defrauded the immigrants by selling them worthless land deeds.
[Middle English defrauden, from Old French defrauder, from Latin dfraudre : d-, de- + fraudre, to cheat (from fraus, fraud-, fraud).]
defraud·ation (dfrô-dshn) n.
de·frauder n.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
defraud [dɪˈfrɔːd]
vb
(Law) (tr) to take away or withhold money, rights, property, etc., from (a person) by fraud; cheat; swindle
defraudation [ˌdiːfrɔːˈdeɪʃən], defraudment n
defrauder n

Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged 6th Edition 2003. © William Collins Sons & Co. Ltd 1979, 1986 © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003
ThesaurusLegend: Synonyms Related Words Antonyms
Verb 1. defrauddefraud - deprive of by deceit; "He swindled me out of my inheritance"; "She defrauded the customers who trusted her"; "the cashier gypped me when he gave me too little change"
bunco, con, diddle, gip, goldbrick, gyp, hornswoggle, mulct, nobble, rook, scam, swindle, short-change, victimize
short, short-change - cheat someone by not returning him enough money
cheat, rip off, chisel - deprive somebody of something by deceit; "The con-man beat me out of $50"; "This salesman ripped us off!"; "we were cheated by their clever-sounding scheme"; "They chiseled me out of my money"

knowing this actually frustrates me im pretty interested to see what the outcome of the situation is

obv im stating the obvious but id assume the TD knows that u were lied to as u say i mean you wouldnt actually be going through all of this if it weren't and he prob knows this is something that dealers (often) likely try pull on players; at the same time maybe i guess this is something that happens more often than people realize as suggested itt and that just seems so slimy for lack of a better word

burn!

LOL

Todd... in 100% agreement with you on all counts here. You rightfully deserve the $1200 back -- what the law says is pretty irrelevant here as it just seems like a pretty boneheaded business move for them to stand their ground. The TD should do his research, see that you're a respected tourney player with lots of clout and connections in the poker world, and realize that the downside of not giving the $1200 back clearly outweighs the benefits of holding on to it.

That said, I'm not sure why you think that there's zero incentive for someone to "claim" they tipped $X and then in turn ask for that $X to be refunded. All things being equal, your potential for committing fraud here seems as likely if not more likely than that of the worker. In fact, in your fraud scenario you stand to gain $1200 whereas in the worker fraud scenario the NJ Asian-looking fellow stands to gain a max of $1200/number of deals, which I assume works out to a small amount.

Does this mean that you believe if you took this the furthest you can legally you would be successful Todd?

I guess on balance your view is that your word would be taken. I'd be inclined to agree, I think your text is pretty key to that too.

To Kramer: I think its clear they aren't disputing that the tip was made. IMO Todd is saying what would be the incentive to go around giving tips and then asking for them back.