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07-14-2009 , 04:54 AM

#26

djg1979

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Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,025

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gazillion

*sigh*

There's no point in playing slowly here.

why not??? he won't get anything but whats in the pot already by betting alright you have to get all the value out of hand while you can

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07-14-2009 , 04:55 AM

#27

ger664

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 3,867

Quote:

Originally Posted by djg1979

so you are saying a guy that calls 8bbs is calling with 10 9??? he hit his set no flush draw in sight he can check raise here with no worries

If for some reason he had t9 in this spot we still have a loads of outs to boat up by the river.

He will also gladly call with QJ KT AT AQ KK+ etc etc. Anyone who call 8xBB Pre is a station in my book. Not need to give them the chance to check behind here and ever reason to get them to stack off with worse The best way is to bet-bet this hand.

CR may get rid of one villain if not both or just gets no money in the pot when it checks through. Betting will Definetly get one if not 2 callers here.

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07-14-2009 , 05:00 AM

#28

djg1979

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Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,025

first off I don't 30 table I have before but 20 is my comfort level and second I am a winning player WITHOUT ANY software help I squeeze every drop of value out of my hands when I have a clear advantage (ie OP) check/raising here is a good call with that flop plain and simple because he would get a raise after his check 95% of the time then he would have an opportunity to get maximum value out the hand

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07-14-2009 , 05:05 AM

#29

Gazillion

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Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 8,721

Srsly, if you're 20 tabling without software help, there is no way you're squeezing every last drop of value out of your hands, especially when you choose to check raise on boards like this vs villains who are going to be more than happy stacking off to you when you bet. You were the preflop aggressor. I don't know what stakes you play at, but if you make it 8x preflop then check a flop that hits a huge amount of your range you are announcing massive strength to anybody except the lowest stakes lagtards. Villains are EXPECTING you to bet, so bet.

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07-14-2009 , 05:07 AM

#30

djg1979

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Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,025

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gazillion

and thats where you don't see that loigc of what I'm saying DO THE UNEXPECTED SOMETIMES!

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07-14-2009 , 05:09 AM

#31

Gazillion

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Check raising isn't unexpected here - it's really standard and pedestrian and it's a mistake bad players make all the time. There is no logic in what you're saying.

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07-14-2009 , 05:10 AM

#32

djg1979

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Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,025

and I do see everyhand 20 tabling I have 50tabled to keep a platinum star last year so 20 tables of sngs are very easy to follow

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07-14-2009 , 05:12 AM

#33

djg1979

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Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,025

you sound like a robot and its nothing wrong with following standard plays I'm just saying that flop is a great trap for the OP

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07-14-2009 , 05:12 AM

#34

Gazillion

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I can only imagine, in which case, that at the kind of stakes where you have to 50 table to reach platinum star, check raising top set on a really co-ordinated board is a viable play. I've only recently stopped playing the $6.50s and even there I can't imagine this line being the most profitable one.

What do you do when it checks behind you and the turn is a 9 or T?

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07-14-2009 , 05:16 AM

#35

djg1979

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Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,025

I got sick that month then later that month I moved so my playing time got pretty far in between so 10s only get you 4vpps and I was about 5500 short with 5 days left in the month

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07-14-2009 , 05:28 AM

#36

djg1979

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Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,025

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gazillion

the turn will come T 9 regardless if it happens (RNG remember) but if you have a top set you are in the driver's seat

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07-14-2009 , 05:42 AM

#37

djg1979

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Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,025

I have had quad QQ after the turn and my opponent made my bet for me thats why I say when you are strong show weakness at times ....look at the hand in question it was the first hand of the tourney he can double up here at least becuase he 320 bet pre with 2 callers and is 95% the nuts with that flop

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07-14-2009 , 05:46 AM

#38

AnfieldRoad

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Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,461

Why is someone arguing for a flop c/r here? We have top set and at least one of these "good" villains should have a lower set or an over pair like 85%+ of the time.

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07-14-2009 , 05:51 AM

#39

djg1979

adept

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,025

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnfieldRoad

Why is someone arguing for a flop c/r here? We have top set and at least one of these "good" villains should have a lower set or an over pair like 85%+ of the time.

its about mixing up your play for me being a reg can make you predictable I found that out the hard way and thats why i say for that hand with that flop do the unexpected

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07-14-2009 , 05:52 AM

#40

Gazillion

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Quote:

Originally Posted by djg1979

its about mixing up your play for me being a reg can make you predictable I found that out the hard way and thats why i say for that hand with that flop do the unexpected

If you want to do the unexpected, then open-fold flop. That ought to keep them on their toes.

Quote

07-14-2009 , 05:57 AM

#41

djg1979

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Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,025

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gazillion

If you want to do the unexpected, then open-fold flop. That ought to keep them on their toes.

very funny but you bet that in first pos you get 2 folds and only 1k chips more if you check 1 of them will bet certainly then you crush him with the reraise and get a bigger chunk of his stack

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07-14-2009 , 05:58 AM

#42

Gazillion

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How have you not figured out yet that villains who cold call 8x raises preflop aren't folding to a c-bet on THAT flop?

Quote

07-14-2009 , 05:59 AM

#43

AnfieldRoad

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Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,461

Quote:

Originally Posted by djg1979

its about mixing up your play for me being a reg can make you predictable I found that out the hard way and thats why i say for that hand with that flop do the unexpected

Mixing up a good line with a bad one just for the sake of it is just plain out stupid.

You'll double up if you bet, so what good could checking possibly bring?

These guys both flatted an 8x raise with 50bb stack, so I wouldn't give them credit for predicting much. Besides, do you still feel either could fold KK here?

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07-14-2009 , 06:03 AM

#44

Gazillion

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Eury, I think you may have to modify your location.....

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07-14-2009 , 06:06 AM

#45

djg1979

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Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,025

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnfieldRoad

I don't want them to fold with that flop and if they have KK+ thats fine because I have the best hand here I would be scared if i bet 320 callers and the flop came KJA but that flop I know i im in control a check raise makes your opponent think about even doing anything else with the hand imo

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07-14-2009 , 06:09 AM

#46

djg1979

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Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,025

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnfieldRoad

If you are up against KK+ he will more than likely bet it out anyway and you will win or lose regardless of if you bet first or not I'm saying a check/raise will make your villian thik about what you are holding more than just betting first becauuse KK+ isnt going anywhere with that flop anyway

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07-14-2009 , 06:12 AM

#47

AnfieldRoad

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Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,461

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gazillion

Eury, I think you may have to modify your location.....

almost forgot

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07-14-2009 , 06:28 AM

#48

djg1979

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Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,025

I'm not here to agrue with you guys I just wanted to let you know my perceptive I would much rather leave a comment and let that be that... I will say this though what you see as a bad play maybe the most logical at times... at times its not a bad play to go all in with ATC but it's not ok to slow play your top set in the OP senario??? I think thats why alot of poker players don't win $$ online because being predictable is a weakness... you can call a raise with 98s but can't slowplay your monsters postflop??? I'll see you guys at the tables

Last edited by djg1979; 07-14-2009 at 06:35 AM.

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07-14-2009 , 06:39 AM

#49

Gazillion

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Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 8,721

Quote:

Originally Posted by djg1979

.. at times its not a bad play to go all in with ATC but it's not ok to slow play your top set in the OP senario???

Now you're starting to understand.......

Quote

07-14-2009 , 07:13 AM

#50

michty6

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Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 4,041

Haha anyone else dive into this thread thinking with 40+ replies there would be some interesting discussion?

I cant believe there has been so much debate about a hand where:
i. You raised 8 BBs pf at level one and were called by TWO guys (= call machines)
ii. You got a flop that suits the range of a call machine (of which there are TWO)

So we're in a hand with TWO call machines, on a flop that suits call machines, with a monster and you DONT want to bet??! Do you understand how to beat players that call too much?

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