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Good shove with a3o from the BB? Good shove with a3o from the BB?

01-06-2015 , 04:59 PM
I was v happy with this inplay but looking at it now was I too rash?
Should I have been worried about the 75bb MP1 raiser and the MP2 19BB flatter?
I saw all the money there and chanced increasing my stack by around 50%
but is A3o good enough to chance this with?

[converted_hand][hand_history]Poker Stars, $10 Buy-in (75/150 blinds, 20 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 9 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #33887981

Hero (BB): 2,170 (14.5 bb)
UTG+1: 6,325 (42.2 bb)
UTG+2: 6,424 (42.8 bb)
MP1: 11,342 (75.6 bb)
MP2: 2,951 (19.7 bb)
MP3: 5,006 (33.4 bb)
CO: 2,094 (14 bb)
BTN: 5,787 (38.6 bb)
SB: 4,375 (29.2 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A 3
2 folds, MP1 raises to 300, MP2 calls 300, 3 folds, SB calls 225, Hero raises to 2,150 and is all-in, 3 folds
Good shove with a3o from the BB? Quote
01-06-2015 , 05:29 PM
I would prolly just put the 1bb getting about 8/1 pre or fold we don't have much fold equity being so short IMO . so I don't really like shoving
Good shove with a3o from the BB? Quote
01-07-2015 , 12:10 AM
Just fold . Calling is bad because A3o in a 4 way pot is pretty much a 1 card hand (the ace) and even when you manage to flop that ace you're never comfortable about putting the rest of your chips in since you're easily dominated by better Ax . Bad reverse implied odds and the chance of you flopping 2 pair or better is very low .
Shove is not good becase you're going to get called by someone and its basically impossible for you to be ahead by much , like even if you get called by JT you're not far ahead and when someone has a real hand like a pair or decent Ax then you're crushed
Good shove with a3o from the BB? Quote
01-07-2015 , 01:46 AM
fold, mp1's calling range will proly be wider considering your stack is less than 20% of his stack so he might take a punt fairly wide to try and KO you seeing its not going to hurt him much
Good shove with a3o from the BB? Quote
01-07-2015 , 07:51 AM
You have the ace blocker, still some fold equity left and theres a bunch of extra money in there so shoving is certainly not horribly bad, might even be +EV. Villains ranges matter a lot here tho.

Never ever flatting.
Good shove with a3o from the BB? Quote
01-07-2015 , 07:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wowsooooted
fold, mp1's calling range will proly be wider considering your stack is less than 20% of his stack so he might take a punt fairly wide to try and KO you seeing its not going to hurt him much
yea that's the main reason I think this wasn't good,if he had say 25-40 bbs I think it would've been worth a shot
Good shove with a3o from the BB? Quote
01-07-2015 , 08:12 AM
I think the shove is good. SB is 99% dead money and doesn't call since he would be shoving/3betting with a caller before him. He might have a small pocket pair and thinks you are doing a squeeze play so he might call if everyone folds. Table image matters. MP2 too short stack to trap with premium so only worried about big stack, but depends on how loose the table is.

More than 1000 in the pot already so you are getting 2000 to win around 5000. Assumming other stacks don't call and big stack has pushing/calling range of 15% you are still 40% favorite with A3o. I don't know how often the callers are trapping in those situations those.

I am a beginner so have that in mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogman3
Just fold . Calling is bad because A3o in a 4 way pot is pretty much a 1 card hand (the ace) and even when you manage to flop that ace you're never comfortable about putting the rest of your chips in since you're easily dominated by better Ax . Bad reverse implied odds and the chance of you flopping 2 pair or better is very low .
Shove is not good becase you're going to get called by someone and its basically impossible for you to be ahead by much , like even if you get called by JT you're not far ahead and when someone has a real hand like a pair or decent Ax then you're crushed
Wouldn't it be fine if you get called by something like JT here? You are more then 50% favorite to gains 2.5x your initial stack.

Last edited by ropecore; 01-07-2015 at 08:17 AM.
Good shove with a3o from the BB? Quote
01-07-2015 , 10:13 AM
Yeh it would be fine to be called by JTs and a good spot . I was trying to say that A3o doesn't do very well against a calling range because it will include hands that crush us like Ax and pairs and also hands that we're pretty much flipping against like broadways .

If we get called by something like JJ-44,A7s+,A5s,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,A9o+,KJo+ then we have 37% equity

So if one player calls and the rest fold then it's a marginally -ev spot maybe

But mp2 should have a strong range here and if mp1 shoves he may overcall and if mp1 folds then I'd expect mp2 to call and show up with a stronger range than the one above
Good shove with a3o from the BB? Quote
01-07-2015 , 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antricko123
I would prolly just put the 1bb getting about 8/1 pre
no thanks, call is the worst option, fold is far better

Our 8/1 express pot odds mean nothing here. What sort of flop do you want to see? You only have 14bb, so there's no implied odds to flop a straight, and because you have A3 you can't even hit an OESD, only a gutshot. Presumably you won't be stacking off with only a pair of threes either. Finally, you'll only see an ace OTF maybe 15% of the time, about 1 in 6, and even when you do you'll usually find yourself getting it in against someone who has a better kicker. And to cap it all, you'll play the hand out of position on two people.

Calling 1bb is just burning money and is a huge leak for a lot of people in these sorts of situations, because they only focus on the great price they think they are getting to see the flop with their garbage hand, but not considering what will happen and how much it will cost on later streets.
Good shove with a3o from the BB? Quote
01-07-2015 , 12:18 PM
^^ yep to be honest I don't no what I was thinking calling is pretty bad If we were deeper an it was suited we could call . I think I meant I prefer calling to shoving what when thinking about now I don't even agree with that becuse I would honestly never call here it's a pretty clear fold
Good shove with a3o from the BB? Quote
01-07-2015 , 01:55 PM
best thing to do is to hit the check/fold button and go grab some food or take a piss as soon as you see your hole cards. sometimes you come back and it was limped to you and you're sitting there on a 245r flop with the action to you, the rest of the times it prevents you from doing something dumb with your short stack
Good shove with a3o from the BB? Quote
01-08-2015 , 12:38 AM
really bad ship. the flatter/opening range is way ahead of yours when your called id rather ship JTs. but both are bad ships... fold this for sure and call with A3s.
Good shove with a3o from the BB? Quote

      
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