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general question with Ax general question with Ax

05-13-2012 , 02:05 PM
If you raise it up say 3x with Ax and the bb shoves for 11bb should you call with any Ax, if not what range of Ax are you calling?
I'm assuming you just sat down and have no reads on villain.
general question with Ax Quote
05-13-2012 , 02:42 PM
You can never open to 3x and fold here with any hand, once you open you are committed vs. an 11 blind stack.
general question with Ax Quote
05-13-2012 , 02:58 PM
I disagree with fatsally here. You can definitely let go 3BB if shoved over depending on your stack size. You need 57% equity to make the call profitable so by comparing A2+ with his shoving range which would b around 20% as he's short stacked, you should call with ATs+AJo+
Also, I usually 2-2.5x pre as you will get the same info than with 3x. I only 3x when the bb is very deep or fishy and I want to get value with a strong hand.
general question with Ax Quote
05-13-2012 , 03:06 PM
Problem here would be the short stack on BB was probably playing tight and looking for a hand to shove with. Personally I'd say his range would be quite small, but depending on how often you tried to steal he may open up slightly, but still Ax is always hard to play. % Say they don't have an A, but as i said they may have waited to get one..
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05-13-2012 , 04:26 PM
Antes or no antes?
Stacksizes?
Suited or unsuited?

Assuming there's antes we'd need ~35%.
What's his range? Like 66+,AT+,KJs+,KQo?
In that case it basically comes down to suitedness. A9o:35%, A6s:36%
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05-13-2012 , 08:38 PM
The better question is why are we open 3x-ing Ax with an 11bb stack sitting in the BB. Do we really expect him to fold ATC here with an opportunity to shove and add 40% to his stack when we fold? Even minraising represents over a quarter of his stack out there for the taking.

If we're not doing this with a hand we're happy to call off for value (which may well be Ax, depending on the circumstances and the villain), we're just setting money on fire.
general question with Ax Quote
05-13-2012 , 08:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodgeyourouts
..... You need 57% equity to make the call profitable .......
herpderp.jpg

since when is calling with 51% equity not profitable?

Assuming pre ante, there's 11+3+½ = 14½ bb already in there, and you're calling a further 8 bb, so you actually need 8/(8+14½) = 35.5555% to break even on the call.

So basically, what V-Delaney said, if you use his ranges for villain. They seem like a decent default to me for a random. I'd also ask where you've raised from — your position should affect the range he perceives you as having, which should affect his shoving range. If you're in LP then you're probably stealing with a wide range, but if you're UTG then you're probably betting for value. Of course, some players are level zero thinkers and won't realise this, but anyway.... assign a range to BB then you can just sit down with a calculator and a copy of pokerstove and do the maths on the ranges for various stack depths.
general question with Ax Quote
05-14-2012 , 04:56 AM
Sorry I deliberatly left out a lot of information because I wanted more of a general thought process than something too specific.
My question wasn't about one hand but more something ive encountered a lot of late, I have been the person with 11 bb and reshoving and getting snapped off by a lot of Ax from every position and after my inital thoughts of "WTF are they doing", i wondered if it was something that was fairly standard that i was missing.
Thanks for all the replies, very helpful and I think im starting to understand the calls a bit better now.
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05-14-2012 , 07:42 PM
Thanks @ V-Delaney and Team for correcting my mistake
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05-14-2012 , 11:59 PM
3x/call. don't 3x and you can fold some garbagy stuff not Ax though
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