This is a 9 man $11 STT. This is the 29th hand, there are 7 players left. I am running 18/14. I have 188 hands on the villian with between 7 and 9 players at the table. In that sample he is running: vpip:11% , pfr:3%, 3bet:4%, resteal:8%. Is my line standard here? Do you think it's maybe better to just jam my stack pre instead of opening to 2x? Thanks.

Merge - $10+$1|<> NL - Holdem - 7 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

CO: 1,175.00
BTN: 1,125.00
SB: 2,144.00
BB: 1,775.00
UTG: 2,785.00
Hero (UTG+1): 1,785.00
MP: 2,711.00

SB posts SB 60.00, BB posts BB 120.00

Pre Flop: (180.00) Hero has K Q

fold, Hero raises to 240.00, fold, CO raises to 1,175.00 and is all-in, fold, fold, fold, fold

CO wins 660.00

think i fold pre there 100% of time..never in a good spot here and not likely to improve unless u just have some super fish at table jamming hand after hand...
fold wait for better position.

Depends on blinds and other players whether 2x/fold (or if there is anyone you can r/c) or openfold, but def neither openshove nor r/c that guy.

There is absolutely no way I would call this shove from the CO player. If he is a thinking player he is going to perceive your range as pretty tight here. Depending on the overall play at this table I could see just open folding here too.

u can def open shove this fwiw...
resteal is the % u use here hence why i open shove this. i raise call the button however

You guys have played online poker right? Find some way to go all in and turn a Q

Didn't check, but I'm pretty sure this is not good if one of those two conditions (which are imho rather likely readless) is met:

- some decent players realize they can call you a good bit wider for being capped
- some fish overvalue mediocre aces

But it's guesswork, hint for OP: Supply some info on the table, not just about the villain who's actually in the hand. Makes a decent diff if the blinds and others are nits or 40/10 fish who call you with A2s cause suited aces are cool hands.

to shove we need 5 nits behind and it would be most likely very marginal

in that case it is probably better to minraise/fold...
and this is what happened...but folding now is little awkward too getting ~1-1.6 we need 40%+ (but against someting like 77+, AJ+ we dont get that much equity, it is 35 max and not raising too quickly when I add more hands for villain)

to minraise/call nice to have minimum 2 shortstacks which we could call (5-6bb max)

imo this is fold in most cases with this stacksetup and position

I agree with this. A shove here is break evenish at best even with tight players behind you. Min raise or open fold seem like the best options IMO depending on table dynamics.

its close to say whats to worst option here is openshove or openfold, but i guess i go with openfold

why would u openfold KQo there with 5 playes behind ? way to nitty imho

my automatic default play there is minraising everytime in this spot

Depends a bit on villains behind, but if some have tendency to call I would b/f > fold pf > shove pf

I would never call his shove though with those stats.

Much odds. Less pfr. Many aggressions. Wow.

Raise fold seems fine. Open fold seems fine. Raise call b über nit doesn't seem good. Merry Xmas!

im with pete

good players no im not capped here, i havent run it but ill b super shocked if 11bb isnt a jam

yea as thought its not even close to not been a jam

but for the point of this discussion R/F for majority is fine obv, i answered the question was if what is optimal for myself, which doesnt help the question R/F OP

open shove seems like it would range from marginal to horrible in a reggish game. considering this is an $11 game on merge and there are still 7 players left I'd find it incredibly hard to believe openshoving isn't just bad.

i'd say if there isn't much 3b going on open/fold is fine and this is one of the few hands to do it with. if there is 3b going on (and esp if a bunch of players are clashing when you fold in general) it's a pretty easy fold.
EP isn't exactly the place to be looking for a ton of thin $ to pick up.

i based my opinion on me in game unfortunately, nobody is calling nash period at that depth

You seriously openshove AA for 14bb utg+1?
Even if you do, ppl do not expect anyone to do this until proven otherwise, at least those I'd consider good players.

no but i can def open shove ak aqs occasionally, i didnt say i jam 100% top range 100% of time, have any of u actually icm'ed this spot and realised how clear cut it is to being +ev, why people r saying breakeven at best when breakeevn there calling ranges are lol wide and nobody ever calls that wide

or have i done something wrong?did everyone just plug stacks in and say ok?when doing this it comes up breakeven, n the ranges r lol wide there chip ev calls

Plugged it in now, nash icm eq results in KQo being -0.03 which would be an ok neg. edge to take imho, IF ppl would actually call nash.
But this assumes hero is shoving 22+,A2s+,AJo+,KTs+,QJs which results in weird ace-heavy eq-calling ranges like "JJ AJs AQo" (example for btn), and this is imho not sth ppl do. Good players realize top of your range is missing and will probably go a tad wider than nash and no one's doing things like folding TT while calling AJs or AQo.
Increased/Decreased some calling/overcalling/later action ranges to make them fit better and test for sensitivity, KQo is less sensitive then I thought it is, but for most of the guesswork shoving KQo just doesn't seem good (somewhere in the -0.05 to -0.3 range).
You say you don't expect ppl to call as wide as nash. What calling ranges would you suggest then?

I think both fish and regs call at least a tad wider than nash in these spots. I also am not sure a negative edge is required at this point in most 9mans, let alone most $11 9mans on Merge.

I understand ICS was just thinking about his ranges in his games, I'm not sold that it's best even in that case yet, but I also think he's probably better than me at 9mans so I'll not argue too loudly about it.

a side note: how the SB and BB play when all fold is going to be a bit of a game-changer here. if SB is WAY tighter shoving than nash and BB is also tighter than I believe our shoving hands gain equity - altho I'm not sure the trueEV changes as much as ICM implies (because that would have bigger future game implications than immediate hand implications, imo).

im gunna re run it unless i was in chip ev my ranges it gave them where lol wide