Fifty50 strat/RoI Discussion - Page 56 - MTT Poker Strategy

Above is my graph so far, it's a mix of $1.50 and $3.50 Fifty50 Sit n Go's.

Looking around online i can't really see much strategy, just wondered what the best way to approach these are?

I know from what ive read the basic strategy is to tighten up early on and loosen up and try stealing towards the button, but is there anything else you can do to exploit these, is it all about shuving ranges and ICM?

"ROI% and ITM% in graph above"

I like my ITM%, its enough to be making me good profit at the moment. But would it be worth sacrificing a bit of that ITM% to increase my ROI% by playing a bit looser in these games?

What about bankroll management for these games, what are your suggestions?

Last question, is it crucial to be playing more than 6 tables a session because i find that i make more just playing 6?

Here's a couple hands for analysis too -

Poker Stars, $3.30 Buy-in (15/30 blinds) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 10 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #17539331

CO: 1,815 (60.5 bb)
BTN: 1,485 (49.5 bb)
Hero (SB): 1,470 (49 bb)
BB: 1,500 (50 bb)
UTG: 1,500 (50 bb)
UTG+1: 1,500 (50 bb)
UTG+2: 1,500 (50 bb)
MP1: 1,500 (50 bb)
MP2: 1,470 (49 bb)
MP3: 1,260 (42 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K

UTG folds, UTG+1 calls 30, 3 folds, MP3 calls 30, CO calls 30, BTN calls 30, Hero raises to 195, BB folds, UTG+1 calls 165, MP3 calls 165, CO calls 165, BTN calls 165

Flop: (1,005) 4

(5 players)
Hero bets 285, UTG+1 folds, MP3 raises to 720, 2 folds, Hero raises to 1,275 and is all-in, MP3 calls 345 and is all-in

Turn: (3,135) Q

(2 players, 2 are all-in)
River: (3,135) 9

(2 players, 2 are all-in)

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Is it best to just shuv over all these limpers or are we not getting called enough to make this play?

Poker Stars, $3.30 Buy-in (100/200 blinds, 25 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 8 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #17539341

MP2: 2,580 (12.9 bb)
MP3: 985 (4.9 bb)
Hero (CO): 3,650 (18.3 bb)
BTN: 85 (0.4 bb)
SB: 900 (4.5 bb)
BB: 1,005 (5 bb)
UTG+2: 2,995 (15 bb)
MP1: 2,800 (14 bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A

2 folds, MP2 raises to 600, MP3 folds, Hero raises to 3,500, 2 folds, BB calls 780 and is all-in, MP2 calls 1,955 and is all-in

Flop: (6,390) A

(3 players, 2 are all-in)
Turn: (6,390) J

(3 players, 2 are all-in)
River: (6,390) J

(3 players, 2 are all-in)

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I know this is a big hands and in this case its the best in pre but is it not better to sit on this stack and avoid a big pot with another big stack with all the short stacks around?

Poker Stars, $3.30 Buy-in (50/100 blinds, 10 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 9 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #17539351

CO: 2,765 (27.7 bb)
BTN: 1,630 (16.3 bb)
SB: 1,750 (17.5 bb)
Hero (BB): 1,345 (13.5 bb)
UTG+1: 2,665 (26.7 bb)
UTG+2: 1,265 (12.7 bb)
MP1: 730 (7.3 bb)
MP2: 1,640 (16.4 bb)
MP3: 1,210 (12.1 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7

2 folds, MP1 calls 100, 4 folds, SB completes, Hero checks

Flop: (390) 7

(3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets 200, MP1 folds, SB raises to 600, Hero raises to 1,235 and is all-in, SB calls 635

Turn: (2,860) 7

(2 players, 1 is all-in)
River: (2,860) 9

(2 players, 1 is all-in)

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This just made me laugh

Ads

Last edited by Regret$; 05-21-2013 at 12:19 PM. Reason: we dont need 2 5050 threads

Quote

05-21-2013 , 11:14 AM

#1378

thePiranha

centurion

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 152

Quote:

Originally Posted by PS ICANTSNG

While this stands true generally, they villians dont wake up with these hands often enough to just simply fold A9s, a9s here is the nuts

+1 im jamming this all day and its a +EV play of course

Quote

05-21-2013 , 01:49 PM

#1379

Acedeucy513

journeyman

Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 304

This is the difference between a micro bankroll versus high fifty50 regular gunning for SNE's thinking. Fifty50's are a different game at the low levels and it turns into a luckfest once the 100/200 blind level appears.

Quote

05-21-2013 , 04:31 PM

#1380

PS ICANTSNG

adept

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 1,014

No idea what that means

Quote

05-21-2013 , 07:43 PM

#1381

Acedeucy513

journeyman

Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 304

When you shove with A9s in EP, do you expect to get called by KQo type hands?

Quote

05-21-2013 , 09:12 PM

#1382

PS ICANTSNG

adept

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 1,014

sb def can call kq, i mean yea some other big stacks might, and maybe even the bb, which is obv a bad call but he still might

Quote

05-23-2013 , 05:17 PM

#1383

CantWinAFlip

newbie

Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 14

Poker Stars, $3.30 Buy-in (100/200 blinds, 25 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 7 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #17592501

BTN: 2,915 (14.6 bb)
SB: 1,155 (5.8 bb)
Hero (BB): 2,275 (11.4 bb)
MP1: 1,465 (7.3 bb)
MP2: 2,620 (13.1 bb)
MP3: 2,490 (12.5 bb)
CO: 2,080 (10.4 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q

MP1 folds, MP2 raises to 2,595 and is all-in, 4 folds, Hero calls 2,050 and is all-in

Flop: (4,775) 3

(2 players, 2 are all-in)
Turn: (4,775) 5

(2 players, 2 are all-in)
River: (4,775) 2

(2 players, 2 are all-in)

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Villain is playing 20/14 and is a recreational player. Given his range is probably pocket pairs and AJ+ is calling here given our 11bb stack profitable?

Quote

05-23-2013 , 05:35 PM

#1384

PS ICANTSNG

adept

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 1,014

Quote:

Originally Posted by CantWinAFlip

MP1 folds, MP2 raises to 2,595 and is all-in, 4 folds, Hero calls 2,050 and is all-in

Flop: (4,775) 3

(2 players, 2 are all-in)
Turn: (4,775) 5

(2 players, 2 are all-in)
River: (4,775) 2

(2 players, 2 are all-in)

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Villain is playing 20/14 and is a recreational player. Given his range is probably pocket pairs and AJ+ is calling here given our 11bb stack profitable?

definately not given the range you have provided

Quote

05-23-2013 , 05:36 PM

#1385

CantWinAFlip

newbie

Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 14

Quote:

Originally Posted by PS ICANTSNG

definately not given the range you have provided

Thanks just wanted to double check

Quote

05-24-2013 , 11:33 AM

#1386

Acedeucy513

journeyman

Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 304

Do we call with AKo in the same situation? I would have called with AQo against anyone except a tight nit or unless I had a read.

Quote

06-13-2013 , 08:49 PM

#1387

Gladiador

newbie

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 28

What is your shove range here?

Poker Stars, $14.31 Buy-in (125/250 blinds, 30 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 7 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

Hero (MP1): 1,245 (5 bb)
MP2: 1,605 (6.4 bb)
MP3: 4,185 (16.7 bb)
CO: 1,625 (6.5 bb)
BTN: 940 (3.8 bb)
SB: 660 (2.6 bb)
BB: 4,740 (19 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 7

Hero raises to 1,215 and is all-in, MP2 folds, MP3 calls 1,215, 4 folds

Flop: (3,015) 6

(2 players, 1 is all-in)
Turn: (3,015) Q

(2 players, 1 is all-in)
River: (3,015) 6

(2 players, 1 is all-in)

Spoiler:

Quote

06-14-2013 , 05:18 AM

#1388

PS ICANTSNG

adept

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 1,014

Sounds sick but without looking at it with icm I'd guess a10+

Quote

06-20-2013 , 06:48 PM

#1389

qieng

newbie

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 43

7$ fifty50 bubble, BU is a loose reg, blinds are rather tight. would you push this hand?

Poker Stars, $6.68 Buy-in (125/250 blinds, 30 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #18013082

SB: 1,920 (7.7 bb)
BB: 1,700 (6.8 bb)
UTG: 2,040 (8.2 bb)
MP: 4,745 (19 bb)
Hero (CO): 2,235 (8.9 bb)
BTN: 2,360 (9.4 bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 5

3 folds, BTN raises to 2,330 and is all-in, 2 folds

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Quote

06-22-2013 , 03:30 AM

#1390

steelerian

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 2,982

Quote:

Originally Posted by qieng

7$ fifty50 bubble, BU is a loose reg, blinds are rather tight. would you push this hand?

3 folds, BTN raises to 2,330 and is all-in, 2 folds

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Really?

Quote

06-22-2013 , 08:30 AM

#1391

qieng

newbie

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 43

yes really. i folded, but nash says, i should push over 50% including any suited queen. seems a bit risky, but if everyone folds i am in a good position to abuse the bubble, as long as the bigstack folds.

Quote

06-22-2013 , 10:41 AM

#1392

Regret$

burnt out

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 12,124

[ ] Nash is useful versus average and even competent opponents.

If you look at the ranges after the suggested shove range it should be instantly apparent why...

Quote

06-22-2013 , 07:43 PM

#1393

PS ICANTSNG

adept

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 1,014

ill help u out,,

shove

Quote

06-23-2013 , 10:27 AM

#1394

zilblitz

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 391

Quote:

Originally Posted by PS ICANTSNG

ill help u out,,

shove

Can you elaborate on your line of thought? Out of curiosity, I plugged this into wiz and (with default calling ranges, etc) had this show up as a fold with -.43 diff%. Not disagreeing (obv you're a winning player), just interested in learning.

- Are you assuming the read of tight blinds to mean that we can adjust the wiz calling ranges down from SB=14/BB=20 (because we basically have everyone playing after us covered)?
- Other reasoning?

Thanks

Quote

06-23-2013 , 01:02 PM

#1395

Thrash370

See my staking thread

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 1,196

Quote:

Originally Posted by zilblitz

It's a shove because the future EV of getting the chip lead is something that isn't calculated in Wiz here

Quote

06-23-2013 , 08:52 PM

#1396

PS ICANTSNG

adept

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 1,014

What thrash said, there is a edge % in which future ev isnt accounted for, also BB20% and SB 14% is ridic wide, its sumthin more like BB 12% sb 8% at a guess

Quote

06-23-2013 , 10:46 PM

#1397

zilblitz

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 391

Quote:

Originally Posted by PS ICANTSNG

What thrash said, there is a edge % in which future ev isnt accounted for, also BB20% and SB 14% is ridic wide, its sumthin more like BB 12% sb 8% at a guess

Thrash and ICANTSNG - thanks guys - very helpful concepts. Cheers

Quote

06-24-2013 , 03:43 PM

#1398

qieng

newbie

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 43

thanks for your answers. so it's a close spot, but it depends a lot on their calling ranges and the possibility to accumulate more chips on the bubble. if their calling ranges are too loose, we might not even have the opportunity to abuse the bubble, because our opponents won't fold enough, right? that would make a slightly -EV push not reasonable, would it?

Quote

06-24-2013 , 04:42 PM

#1399

Thrash370

See my staking thread

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 1,196

Quote:

Originally Posted by qieng

Not a close spot, snap shove AINEC, I can't emphasize this enough this is a no brainer all day all in and if you aren't shoving here you're burning heeps of money