Mp limped almost every hand and button was rather tight but wouldnt limp/call an allin here. shove or still see a flop?

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, 11+1 Tournament, 100/200 Blinds (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB (t4155)
Hero (BB) (t5180)
UTG (t12585)
UTG+1 (t8030)
MP1 (t2045)
MP2 (t1830)
MP3 (t3090)
CO (t1400)
Button (t9245)

Hero's M: 17.27

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q, K
3 folds, MP2 calls t200, 2 folds, Button calls t200, 1 fold, [color=#CC3333]Hero?

Is this an MTT? Considering the big stack limped along, I would check in the BB

I think you're a bit too deep to need to push with something like KQs. I'd check in the blind and see a flop. A close second would be to raise to 750ish. Shoving wouldn't be an option for me in this spot.

This hand is good for catching someone with KJ or QJ for a few chips. I doubt anyone has AK or AQ.

I don't see any need to risk your tournament like going against AJ or 99. Keep the pot small by checking.

I prob just check this. Shoving seems kinda ridiculous, though it is probably +EV, I just think taking a flop is more +EV, particularly since you'll have an easy stack to play post. Don't like a smaller raise either, since it makes for an awkward pot to stack ratio post flop.

way too deep. small reward, high risk

I would push... Button probably won't call cause he limped along he is hoping for a cheap flop, do you think he would limp to trap someone if there is already a limper before him, doubtful? Chance Button might have something like AJ or weaker ace, but he would be an idiot to call 5k with AJ. That is a huge chunk of his stack. One person that might have a real hand is MP2 but he has only 2k... which is less than half your stack. But check is approriate too... but personally I like to gamble before my stack equal to 10x the BB. That way I can take a serious amount off anyone's stack and they would be more worried about making a call than they would if the blinds were higher and would be a less percentage of OPP stack. But If I thought if one of my opponents had a good hand and his stack puts me at serious risk than I wouldn't make an all in.

Too deep to shove here i think. I would just check it here.

Am I the only one who thinks pushing here is WAY out of the question? I understand that the concensus of the thread is that we are too deep to push, but some people make it seem like it is close. IMO 26 BB's when the button covers us is suicidal.

If not this hand then what hand (if any) would it be OK to push ~25 BB's in this spot. I can't think of anytime I would use this play, but want to hear why others think it MAY be +EV. I personally rule out the pf push after I have >15 BB's (barring special reads/circumstances.) Is this a mistake?

Just wanted to hear what others thought.

This situation we have limpers, no raisers and we have a decent hand. If we shove here we probably get everyone to fold. Its better to see a flop here I think.

I'm raising for value with passive MP in the hand. Button probably has a small pair or connectors or some suited Ax which we have decent equity against and some FE pre-flop. In addition, our hand can play big if we hit strong and raising makes it a lot easier to get BTN's stack in when we do. If MP 3bet shoves, BTN is likely to fold out and we have some overlay.

Basically, I think we have solid equity against BTN's range and we're crushing MP2's range, but we're OOP against both and should take the initiative here.

This is more along the lines of what I was thinking. I would say 50% raise 50% check (as always depending on table dynamics.) Anyone else?

i think raising is the best option here.Raising enough to show the button ur willing to play for stacks, maybe 4x it here or a little more...mp2 has 7bb's left and will only have the option to shove or fold...

I see a couple of problems with a raise to say 1000. First, you have to call MP2 if he shoves and fold Button also shoves.

Second, if you get a call from button, you are now looking at a pot of around 2500 with 4200 behind. 2/3 of the time you are going flop K high out of position against a villain who has you covered and without chips to make a cbet and then fold.

You could raise and shove any flop. But really, all plays other than checking are fairly aggressive and risky when risk is not necessary with this stack.

1.) This would be no different than if we shoved and got trapped by MP w/ a monster.

2.) This is a valid point. I think that a K high flop will be good a good chunk of the time though. I can't see the button overlimping AK. They would have to be playing a set or random 2 pair.

Overall I would say that the check may be the best play. (In fact the more I think about the more Ilike it,) but I would "standard raise" before shoving. On that note is raising say 700-800ish just dumping money? It gives us a pot deep enough to get some money from button, but small enough to keep us from getting pot committed. I may be overthinking this though...

He's saying that we whiff on 2/3 flops and are left with Khi, which is obv behind any pairs he has and Ahi if he's going to call off the rest without a pair.

edit: my basis for raising is predicated on BTN folding a decent % of the time when we raise. the tighter he's limping and wider he's calling, the more i like checking.

Oh OK! Sorry completely misread that. That explains a lot. While I don't think he will call w/ A high UI a BIG percentage, I DO see the predicament we will be in (especially if we get limp called p/f by a tight player.)

OK so it should be a check more often than not.

Does check>3-4x>AI sound about right?

Checking in my opinion is the best. This is because we have an awkard stack size to play OOP in what could be a 3-way pot with little behind us to be creative, even C-bet. We can take the pot away a lot postflop in a checked flop anyway, with a lot more to play around with.

Shoving is second best. This is because we are just slightly too deep to justify a push, there are two limpers that are likely only calling what crushes you, and I don't know if it is +EV, if it is I would still say checking in the BB has even more +EV

Raising is the worst I reckon, because if you raise you're going to have to call a shove, when flatted (which you do by a lot of players at these stakes) you are going to have a difficult time post flop. Against one opponent I can see it being viable, raising enough to set up a pot sized shove on any flop, but against two its troublesome. I think raising here just leaves you in a lot of awkward spots and is difficult to play, and poker is meant to be simple.

This is all dependent on the BTN though, if he wasn't there I shove 100% of the time easy.

As mentioned MP limped almost every hand and i definitly had his range cruushed! button was rather tight so i think he almsot always has a small pp, suited connectors or a weak/middle suited ace and i was 98% sure that he would fold to my shove.
Mp would defnitly be bad enough to call with a hand that I have beat/dominated and i think that he never has me in a bad spot here. still he shoved willingness to gamble allim pre with all sorts of hands.

considering that; still better to check and wait for a better spot or should we take the free chip/flipping with Mp??

btw i hate raising and folding a bad flop with my stack size if button comes along.

results: Mp called me with J9s and btn folded AT

Check>shoving>raising imo. That said with 26 bb's I'm stacking off on most top pair flops and draws.

Well I guess if your read is sure that BTN won't call, then easy shove.

I think both raising and checking are fine, and I have no idea why people want to push...

If you are raising, you want to make sure you leave a decent sized stack left for the flop, so you can cbet against the BTN, and still get away. Unless you get 2 callers, and get a really bad flop I can't see a problem. Even that might not be a problem. And being OOP is best vs MP2. Also if you are so sure the BTN won't call a shove, I think you can be fairly confident he's folding to a raise..?

Well if it is limped to the button and button raises I am shoving if he has been in anyway active and with ante's I think this is a trivially straightforward shove.

There is 14% of our stack in dead money in the middle, we have KQs and a read that the button is never calling so I don't hate a shove here at all.