all right fellows, this happened

Full Tilt Poker Game #6206506179: $33,000 Guarantee (1r+1a) (46534321), Table 40 - 8000/16000 Ante 2000 - No Limit Hold'em - 2:12:21 ET - 2008/04/28
Seat 1: mordan (534,179)
Seat 3: BKiCe (609,575)
Seat 5: Kadabra (317,246)
mordan antes 2,000
BKiCe antes 2,000
Kadabra antes 2,000
BKiCe posts the small blind of 8,000
Kadabra posts the big blind of 16,000
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Kadabra [Th As]
mordan raises to 41,500
BKiCe has 15 seconds left to act
BKiCe folds
Kadabra raises to 315,246, and is all in
mordan has 15 seconds left to act
mordan calls 273,746
Kadabra shows [Th As]
mordan shows [9h Ah]
*** FLOP *** [7s Kd 9c]
*** TURN *** [7s Kd 9c] [4d]
*** RIVER *** [7s Kd 9c 4d] [5h]
Kadabra shows Ace King high
mordan shows a pair of Nines
mordan wins the pot (644,492) with a pair of Nines
BKiCe: gg
Kadabra stands up
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 644,492 | Rake 0
Board: [7s Kd 9c 4d 5h]
Seat 1: mordan (button) showed [9h Ah] and won (644,492) with a pair of Nines
Seat 3: BKiCe (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 5: Kadabra (big blind) showed [Th As] and lost with Ace King high




ok boo hoo, get over it no one cares. I told my friend Im never shoving a8 or worse here, he says

I beg to differ. With a 20bb stack 3 handed you are in a great spot to resteal any two, but you're range is likely a little tighter. Say 22+, JT+, QT+, KT+, Ax+...that is still likely on the tight side. A9s against that range given the price is pretty much 55/45 call/fold IMO




i say

it would take a very extreme situation for me to be shoving any 2 over a button raise with 20 big blinds. A2-A8 are the worst hands you can shove, everytime your called with a2, your dominated, cuz he either has a better ace or a pair. my shoving range is all pairs, 89s 109s j10s jqs kq kqs AK AQ AJ A10 and maybe one suited air ball like 86s



what do you all think?

I'm not exactly sure what your question is here. It might be, "was this a bad call by the button?" It also might be, "should I be shoving lighter?" Answers: maybe, it depends, and yes, you should be shoving lighter.

With respect to the first question, against that exact range, the button's equity is a little less than 42%, if you include 87s (which seems reasonable if you'll shove 86s), it becomes about 42.2%. His pot odds are about 1.35:1, which translates to needing an equity of about 42.5% to make the call correct. At best, if he knew your exact range, his call would be very very slightly wrong from a cEV standpoint. From a $EV standpoint, I can't imagine that this call is correct, though I don't have an ICM calculator, so I don't know for sure.

As for should you be shoving more? Probably. I'd certainly shove more hands than that. A 15-20 BB stack is generally considered to be the optimal stack size for the resteal. In a three-handed game, I would probably be restealing pretty loosely with this size stack, assuming they were aggressive players, and would raise pretty light in position. The current distribution of chips would also make me more likely to resteal. Two players are effectively tied for first, and you are about half their size. Incorrectly calling your shove shifts them from tied for first to distant third, so they will generally be less inclined to call, which should make you more likely to resteal. You're in last place, so you have to do something, and maximizing the leverage of your stack against the payout structure seems like the best way to try and pick up chips.

The only caveat to this line of thinking is that your opponents may be good enough to anticipate the necessity of calling your shove before they even raise. The 33k guarantee is a $100 one rebuy one add-on, right? Now, these are higher stakes than I play, but I'd assume, at that level, players are generally aware of the implications of taking various actions against various stack-sizes. Thus, you most likely have less fold equity shoving in this spot than you would shoving against a player with the same opening standards in a small stakes tournament, because the higher stakes raiser will anticipate looser restealing in response to his looser opening standards.

thanks, basically the arguement is,

should we be restealing with A2-A8 here. I say no, because we are dominated by nearly all of his calling range, he says yes, or else were not shoving enough hands.

I think it matters alot what his stats look like as my reshove range is mostly based on my read. I am confused on how you can give your reshove range without mentioning what you think his opening raise range is in that situation. This seems like a question that is 100% based on the previous play of the other player. In general no reads I would not shove A2-A8 thinking the same as you about always being dominated, but definatly would if he was at all likely to be getting out of line. Here i would definatly not because I would expect him to play mildly more conservative and be opening tighter given the stack sizes here. Without knowing yours or his stats and previous plays at the table it is tough to say anything about which plays are correct. Good quetsion, I wonder whether I should be shoving those hands often when I fold them.