there's a lot of straight draws, gutshots, and backdoor type hands like QJ T9s, never mind total air, that can make someone's xr frequency on this board waaaay out of line, especially when we have a read he plays a bit wild.

we have pair + bdoesd.

the lower our pair is relative to the board the more protection becomes a thing.

the shallower the stacks the more we gain by jamming over calling.

it's not hard for jamming to be better than calling in this scenario and given the description of Villain I think it's clearly better but if we feel we don't have a confirmed read I could see it otherwise. arguments against jamming certainly include lacking bdfd and V's small sizing (in terms of getting worse odds on a jam at least).

I would defer to judgment of user12345/LG/outplayu or someone else who I know grinds mtts online on this matter as it's not my area of expertise per se.

Thought you were talking about the BB's 3b with K9o.

I think stack sizes combined with the fact that they are deep ITM play the biggest factor here. I just dont see villain ever being fos which would lead me to fold.

I wouldn´t cbet in the first place, maybe much deeper stacks , and prob much better if flop has an on it.
Jamm pre is stupid i don´t care how much ´´+EV´´ it is , limp or raise pre (def prefer a raise, we need to have a raise/calling range and a r/f aswell)

Holy cow, so many players who deem themselves experienced still judge in terms "he might have total air and a lot of bluffs" not bothering to even try and construct a plausible range where a shove with our hand becomes at least close to breakeven.
End up making similiar threads on 2+2 where they punt they whole stack with <25% equity looking for someone to justify their actions repeating their "but I had reads" "dynamics" "he was aggressive last 20 minutes" "DON'T DISCUSS PREFLOP" mantra.
Hilarious.

Agree with you for once

Don't even know how to respond to you because several people already posted stuff that's wrong/illogical on your part that you just ignored.

(in response to your saying Hero was drawing dead)


Anyway, in this particular situation we have the following info:

- V is known to play wild/unorthodox style
- V is big stack
- Hero is short stack and faces ICM pressure
- V makes tiny raise, risking little

Do you disagree with any of those points? Yet somehow you conclude that his xr range has us crushed, which is totally inexplicable to me.

From a lot of your strat posts, you seem a bit inflexible in being able to give people credit for playing aggressively or doing things outside the norm of what you experience. And yet you berate others for being assumptive.

21% is nowhere near enough to bet get it in versus check raise. I hope that's clear for everyone.

That is an assumption we made from playing how many hands and seeing how many showdowns with villain? Less than 50 hands? 2 showdowns? I would dismiss this info then. Also, "wild" can also mean he is willing to get it in with any second or top pair here which is bad for us.

So? Does it mean he is going to be check raising where he has no fold equity?

That actually contradicts your and op's points, also this statement is contradictory in itself. If we are short it means there is less ICM pressure on us as opposed to middle and bigger stacks. If you think that we face ICM pressure, why are we betting second pair no draw/no kicker and piling over a check raise risking our whole stack?

It does not mean anything really. If anything, any raise from him looks comitting due to stack sizes, by making it tiny he might want to create an illusion of fold equity when there is no, in reality.

Those points are ambigious and irrelevant when we break down the hand. And when we break it down we find ourselves with a rock bottom of our range, facing a check raise in a very low spr versus a range we have 30% equity at most (if we are generous and creative when assigning bluffs to our villain). Of course I concluded we are crushed by his range, wasn't a hard conclusion. Even checked it in calculator trying to be as biased as possible towards his bluffs and we are still crushed.

I am close to being 1 million hands in cash, I've climbed all the way from z25 to z200, (that's not even taking into account tens of thousands of mtts I played before I switched to cash) and although my experience is nothing compared to some online regulars, I can assure you it's more than enough to see all kinds of "outside the norm" and "playing aggressively" plays from weak players.

And this play coming from a big blind it's always lights out game over for our hand.

But ofcourse some live "regular" will chime in with his priceless observation "BUT ONE TIME I SAW PEOPLE DO IT WITH BLUFFS THEY BLUFFING WHAT DO THEY HAVE GOTTA BE BLUFFS HE AGGRO". And in that case I have to show myself out, because who am I to tell people playing 1k$ live mtts that bet/3bet shoving 76hh on Ks7d5s is bad, right.

I wouldn't ask people if they "would have swapped with me" after the fact lol

Using HER Calculator (set for ICM output with the payouts from this event input) the open-shipping range pre is:

24.2%, 44+ A2s+ A7o+ A5o K7s+ KTo+ Q9s+ QTo+ J9s+ (with A5o and K6s being indifferent.) so /pre discussion.

Seems like a marginal to OK 2.2x open pre unless SB is the type to resteal wide. Postflop not sure if any of ur range wants to bet 33% (with an spr of 3?)

A low-freq cbet strat for ~66% seems like a much better approach at this spr on a texture like this. What is the plan ott if u get flatted with a 1.6 to 1 spr?
Using a 2-street flop+turn betting strat 76hh would always be a c/b oft and ott unimproved.

As a general MTT strat with ~20bbs, you should be looking for spots to reship loose opens pre (super profitable and not that high-variance if u use a decent range) while looking to avoid marginal spots where u could lose chips and jeopardize ur FE. 7 handed, if there is an aggro plyr on ur right, folding pre is prob > opening into a big stacked BB.

As played if I misclick bet 1/3, I would just fold.

so hed 3bet K5o+ but fold K4-K2? 3bet all suited kings? never flatting Kx? This seems rather arbitrary/unrealistic.


Hes got to have ALOT of pure air here to want to shove without anything more specific than "aggro player" "might be c/r alot" Should prob be checking back flop most of the time, you block some of the gutshots that can call flop and lead river(this is probably the worst 7x to cbet), protecting against dry overs isnt terribly important since you're aggro description would suggest he can be probing turns with those same 6 outers and you get value bluffcatching later streets. theres some relevance to a 100% or near 100% cbet strat vs defenders(esp wide defenders), but that strategy isnt very desirable if the conditions are favorable for bet 3betting this flop with 76.

its not that bad dude

Opening 19BB pre with 76s isn't bad in a vacuum. (nor is shoving) I think though with OP's image he's going to be played back at a lot and put in nasty spots either pre or on turn, so maybe this is a hand to let go. If OP's image was more conservative and tight then I like opening up my button this wide (if not super-wide) even short.

On the flop, I'm trying to see value in betting flop here when checked to. Sure we deny equity to overcards but considering our opponent's perceived style of play wouldn't we want to at least try to induce our opponent to bluff turn? (Although I don't like having the 6 here because it's now less likely our opponent has a straight draw.)

Am I thinking about this wrong? I think the 3-bet might be better if we had some more backdoors and/or weren't removing a bunch of our opponent's c/r bluff hands by having the 6.

thanks for the reply, I didn't bother getting involved with some previous posts because it was getting slightly outta hand and off topic.

I'm quite certain that villain is calling with all of his 5s on the flop (although there prolly aren't many in his range to begin with).

So not only am I cbetting for value vs 5s and gutshots (against most of his draws were basically flipping and he's unlikley to have many kings imo) but also to try and take down the pot there so that I'm not faced with tons of difficult spots on most turns.

Once he check raises me tho, I guess I shoulda folded although I don't think it's nearly as bad as some people are making it out to be (ie drawing dead lol)

I didn't say that he'd necessarily 3bet k5-k8, if he'd folding k2-k4 then he might be folding k4-k6, just calling k7-k9 (which was the case) and jamming k10+ or something along these lines.

Kinda tough to put myself in bluff catcher mode if I check back flop where I'm gonna face a ton of difficult turns (and rivers) and when I have so few chips.

ur making it seem like I knew villains cards and was happy to get it in w 21% when I jammed. don't you think it's possible he folds some % of the time or calls it off w worse? yes we know most of the time when he calls we're either flipping or has me crushed.

my assumptions were based on 0 hands w villain and just what I was told from others.

by your description, 'wild' could also mean getting it in w bottom pair which we have 'drawing dead' according to you. and it could also mean just trying to check raise w 'air' like j8 for ex just trying to put pressure on me and take it down right there vs floating and trying something more creative on the turn, in which case there is fold equity.

cool story about playing tons of low-limit cash and however many tourneys u've played.

it was a $3.5k (that I was in for 2 bullets for) not a $1k. and just because I don't play online anymore (I used to and am/have been profitable over every single form of poker that I've ever played both live and online including some extremely tough high stakes plo games) doesn't mean that I'm some live 'fish'.

was I wrong to jam the flop, quite possibly but I have no idea what you have against me to cause such anger from you. it's prolly a good thing that you don't play live cuz I'd imagine that you'd berate all the 'fish' and noone would wanna play w u.

glad you enjoyed playing with me, one of my goals is for ppl to have fun playing with me even if I take their $

and thanks for the GLs, same to u and I'm sure I'll see you around

I always come off as "angry" at these text forums, I don't really know (or care) why that happens. Should I pepper my posts with smileys and address every OP as "kind sir"?

Yet if you do want to learn something, dismiss the "tone" of my posts and just read into hand breakdown. The only thing you have going with your 3bet shove is some fold equity, that's it. He is never (never ever) getting it in with a worse hand. You also block bunch of weak draws with your 6. Now, even some street poker experience should tell you that with this SPR when he check raises - he gets it in >90% of the time. That's all you need to know. Don't really know what to add here, said everything in my previous posts. Peace out, kind sir

Again, you have this weird bias that "they just always have it" despite the fact that there are different types of poker players that play differently (!!!).

I'd say his call jam frequency is somewhere between 60-85%. >90 is a pretty extreme scenario. That's like if he only xr/f a few oesds and never has any pure bluffs. Certainly that's one type of player. I don't know how you arrive at the conclusion that it's THIS player.

you say that you don't care but you prolly do deep down which is why ur so attacking, and u likely do so because you have some major insecurities in ur game/life? and trying to put others down makes you feel good. I'm not asking you to suck up to me or anyone but u don't have to be such an ass and you certainly don't have to act sarcastic with me now.

in case you didn't read my posts, I actually agreed with you and said that I likely made a mistake by jamming.

it's also funny how you dismiss some of my assumptions but make a bunch yourself to come up with your conclusions ('The only thing you have going with your 3bet shove is some fold equity, that's it. He is never (never ever) getting it in with a worse hand.') for someone who's played millions of hands like yourself, have you never seen someone stack off with bottom pair before? and your 90+% figure is obv an assumption that your 'street experience' lead you to however mine and others 'street experience' has led us to assume a lower %.

if you ever make your way to playground poker, feel free to ask around about me and we can play some hu in pretty much any game/format you'd like.

Mad1Lee uses that "holier-than-thou" tone in every thread. I would not take it personally.

oh I'm not whatsoever, I'm like this with everyone lol. sometimes gotta put people in their 'place' tho

shot fired!!! Now it's a pissing contest

thats not a pissing contest its a dude responding to someone calling him out with a challenge....if madlee was as good as he says he would snap accept cuz loleasymoney