First hand of a live $45 turny.
150BB deep 8 handed 50/100

Dealt to hero in SB: Ac 8s
3 folds, mp raises to 400, 2 folds, hero calls 350, BB.calls 300

Pot 1200
Flop: 8h Qc 4c

Hero checks, BB checks, mp bets 1200, hero calls 1200, BB calls 1200

Pot 4800
Turn: 6c
Hero?

The BB calling is what really throws me off. Do I c/c, c/f, b/f? Eff stacks ~136BB

fold pre
fold flop
check/eval turn, probably fold depending on action.

if he is laggy 3bet pre with intention to fold

you wont be able to play this hand profitable OOP vs a 4BB open here imo, what was your plan if you miss the flop, fold to the cbet?

readless i would just fold pre this deep and throw the 50chips to him

first hand!

fold out of turn imo

this.

folding flop is ridiculous. you are 150bb deep and you may have the best hand. your flop play is perfect. folding pre is fine though.

on turn you now have easily the correct odds to call any bet. you have a pretty huge draw unless they have a set in which case you still have a fair few outs. you may even be ahead and they need to improve not you. so against their betting range you have an easy call as you are ahead here a decent % and you have some implied odds they arent just going to fold when a club or an 8 comes unless they are very weak players.

since i havent been the aggressor i just check and call on turn. we have a made hand and a huge draw. if u bet it has to be with the intention of rr if they raise your turn bet. bet folding is awful on turn here. but i think cc is best. if all you had was a draw i dont mind betting or c/r but u have a made hand and a draw.

We have an offsuit weak ace in the small blind with no information on our opponent facing a 4x raise - I can't think of any good reason to get involved in this pot at all.

wow...really bad dude

instasnap fold pre
and Norwood calling flop is simply compounding a huge pre error
just smack yourself in the head and fling your cards angrily into the muck muttering about how they always outflop your JJ with KQ

There is no reason to play this hand whatsoever!

Having said that you should lead out on the flop. Checking gains you no information - and since this is the first hand of the torny you are very unlikely to get reraised by a bluff.

Bob

Thanks for all the advice. I do agree that pre should be a fold and after seeing the backdoor NFD on the flop I decided to peel one more with my pair. C/c the turn seems too weak and leading out seems too dangorous with 2 players still to act. I guess that's why folding per saves me from all this mess...

guys you dont understand deep stack poker if you fold this on flop. a medium pair is always worth a call. i agree the pre is a mistake but each decision has to be made independently. the problem with A8 as opposed to say 87 is that when you flop an 8 there is more likelihood other people are in there with Ax where x is a higher flopped pair. as hitting an A on the turn here is a mixed blessing. when you call with a flopped medium pair and a non A kicker there are 5 good cards for you and 40 bad cards so you are drawing to an 8/1 shot if you are behind. but you may not need to improve. betting is spew when you have a medium pair this deep but so if folding. sure they may have a set but your threads prove that i am easily getting the implied odds to draw to my 8/1 shot on flop as you are all stacking off with an overpair regardless of how deep you are. so you are easily laying the odds needed to draw to two pair or trips.

of course if we are shallower we cant call with a medium pair as we dont have the odds we need. but against people who cant fold overpairs (ie everyone on here from what i can see from the threads i read) you have to draw to 2 pair or trips when you flop a pair and are over 100bbs deep. against someone like me its pointless drawing to 2 pair as you will never win enough to justify drawing to an 8/1 shot. the more i read these boards the more amazed i become.

bionic - if you play as badly post flop as most on here appear to from the advice they have given on this thread then you definitely need to be playing a very tight range pre flop. if your A8 was suited you should call pre but unsuited fold it. but on flop and turn cc is correct. calling bets on turn here isnt weak. its very good play. as its +ev and thats all that matters. you have a made hand and a huge draw. folding on turn is horrendous.

Fold pre, probably bet out as played. Just fold pre tho.

3.5X open and no reads...even A 8 suited seems a simple pre fold...

deciding to call pre, flop and turn with 2nd pair and no reads is not good IMHO

+1

ssnyc - its an interesting point. i mean A8s<87s for sure. but when we are over 120bbs deep then its still a call when people are stacking off with overpairs as everyone is (see threads on here as ive mentioned already). also the call on the flop is simple with second pair top kicker and a backdoor nut FD. from then on every street is evaluated based on the evidence i.e. does villain keep firing and the cards that come. once you pick up a nut flush draw to go with your middle pair on turn its a simple cc situation. if u didnt pick up a fd and all you had is middle pair and turn is a blank i would still call if im getting 3/1. 2/1 i would maybe call. as poker is purely a game of odds. you are getting the right price v their range. i mean if i had AQ here i would be cc flop so why wouldnt i do it with A8. i want people to keep firing v my cc range. 2nd pair top kicker is a decent hand when your are getting>2/1 odds. and 2nd pair top kicker with a nut flush draw is a very good hand.

obviously when it gets shallow decisions made on the flop have to be followed thru ie once you call the flop you get pot committed. but when we are deep we can play "normal poker" which means second pairs and strong draws on flops dont get folded. as 2nd pairs are both drawing hands and made hands. you are drawing to the best hand at 8/1 odds unless they have a set or have a matching card and you also are ahead a high % of the time as we know that most raised pre are with unpaired cards which are then 2/1 to hit a flop. and once we hit the flop they are >2/1 to have hit flop. and ther are only 72 combinations of paired cards and only very few of those combinations will ever flop an overpair. so folding a middle pair on flop when stacks are over 100bbs deep is basically awful. if you do it you need to just fold almost everything pre flop. i mean i think this q8x flop is better for us with A8 than an Axx flop. as we are ahead at least as often.

one thing i realised is you can be a winner at tournament poker not understanding post flop play at all. i know because that was me. i could win at tourneys and thought i was a really good player when in reality i had no understanding at all of when to call bets on flop and when cc was better than betting. now i am a lot further on in my poker development i realise how i used to play is actually way inferior to how i play now. but i was worried about being weak. i was the ultimate TAG as everyone is on here. but its not the best way to play. but you can win playing that way. just avoid playing pots when stacks are deep and wait until Ms shrink to 30 and then get busy. you arent at a big disadvantage but you will do better if you learn how to play deepstacked in early stages. as only <5% of players in tournaments will understand how hand values change pre flop and on flop when stacks are deep i.e >100bbs. and if you are one of those you have a big edge in the early blind levels. its not crucial to being successful in tournaments as shallow stack play is far more important. but it definitely helps and adds to your edge.

no point getting into an argument as i will be slammed as usual. but its worth giving some thought to i think. as you are all laying massive implied odds and failing to take advantage of the massiveimplied odds being laid to you when you are deep stacked both pre flop and on flop.