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05-29-2014 , 04:01 PM

Toonces

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 486

Live tourney. $40 buyin. 8 handed, 15 left, pays 6., 2k/4k blinds. Average stack is 45K. I am table leader with 90k. After 2 folds, I raise to $10k with Qh6h. Cutoff with 36k total calls. $24k pot and Cutoff has $26k behind.
Flop is 7h 7d Jc . I go all in.

Is my raise in the right range to attack preflop? If not, what is a good minimum hand? What about flop play?

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05-29-2014 , 05:17 PM

HUHandEH

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 5,458

check Flop

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05-29-2014 , 07:15 PM

BigTobacco

journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 373

Quote:

Originally Posted by HUHandEH

check Flop

that's useless advice
fold pre

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05-29-2014 , 08:29 PM

DogNamedBluff

centurion

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 150

I would prefer Q9s+. But if everyone is playing scared, trying to make the money, raising Q6s is ok. Post flop I would take one stab at the pot with a little under 1/2 pot sized bet.

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05-30-2014 , 09:42 AM

oscarrdc

grinder

Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 472

Fold pre, the average is 11bb and you are too early. If you open any short can push because just in dead money there is half of his stack, or more, and sometimes you'll must pay due to pot odds. In CO or BTN and with tight villains in the blinds it would be better

As played, if you have a 7 or a J, would you have pushed? pushing you are representing to have air most of the times.

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05-30-2014 , 10:00 AM

nonsimplesimon

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 10,174

From the hj its a little loose. Otherwise if you were later and depending on stacks left behind you I might open shove.

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05-30-2014 , 10:45 AM

dean327

adept

Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 1,074

Fold PF. You have to sweat out 7 more player to the money. With average stack just under 10 bb. Too many to act after you tha will push with any A.

Flop: Villian commited almost 1/3 of his stack PF and if he folds now he will have just over 5 BBs. Villian should never fold here and range is better than your hand. Looks like you wasted 26K chips.

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05-30-2014 , 12:03 PM

flizana

journeyman

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 210

How deep where the stacks behind you? If everyone has <11BB I would be shoving pre instead of r/c or r/f. Q6o is not a part of my range from this position (BTW in which position is hero on?) Maybe shoving Q9s+ and QTo+ if and only if effective stacks behind are <11BB.

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05-30-2014 , 06:15 PM

Toonces

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 486

I would say that the biggest stacks were about 2 people with 12-13 BB. The guy that called had 9 BB. So, with the big stack and most with <11 BB, you would push with everything you play with?

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06-01-2014 , 04:41 AM

#10

Dragons_Egg

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 4,861

need to know all stacks with positions.

From info given it looks like you're better off folding pre, but surely you should have some read on the tendencies of your opponents?

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06-01-2014 , 06:09 PM

#11

bitmonk

adept

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 874

Quote:

Originally Posted by flizana

this! You had the biggest stack but not a big stack. "Bullying" works best if you have a huge stack and your opponets also have playable stacks that they could possibly loose.

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06-01-2014 , 07:21 PM

#12

Toonces

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 486

Is there good writing available on what conditions and ranges make sense for bullying with a big stack?

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06-01-2014 , 07:31 PM

#13

bitmonk

adept

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 874

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toonces

Is there good writing available on what conditions and ranges make sense for bullying with a big stack?

Things it Took Me a While to Learn by Mr. Tony Dunst:
http://www.pokersavvy.com/plus-artic...while-to-learn

you may have a look at part 1 and 14.
I think you can still use these guidelines for ssmtt...

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06-02-2014 , 02:49 AM

#14

SetSetter

adept

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 922

I think you may be a bit too wide preflop given your position. The issue (as mentioned), is that there are most likely numerous re-shove stacks that can shove and put us into many "must call" situations where we must reluctantly call (risking half our stack).

For instance, if we raise 2.5x and a villain 3bet ships an approx. range of 77+/AQ+ and it's back to us, it is basically a "must call" situation with 34% calling odds. The problem is, not a lot of hands have 34% equity against that range. Q6s only has around 20% whereas Q9s has just under the desired 34% amount.

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06-04-2014 , 07:25 AM

#15

aboulleil

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 689

fold pre. from MP this is not really a great spot to "bully" , plus the short stacks can be 3b/shoving fairly wide with an average stack of 11BB and we might have to call off with that hand.

I dont like flop shove either. what is villain flatting 10k out of his 36k stack pre and folding on J77 flop? I think AQ only. Even TT/99/88 would be hard to fold there from villain.
your line is more air. some players will even pick you off with AQ there.

would we be pushing flop with a J or a 7 or even with an over pair?

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06-06-2014 , 09:49 PM

#16

Magnum3k

banned

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 4

With <15 BB avg might as well bully from late pos but too early will catch shoves with bad heads up hands like Q6

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06-07-2014 , 02:58 AM

#17

flizana

journeyman

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 210

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toonces

I would say that the biggest stacks were about 2 people with 12-13 BB. The guy that called had 9 BB. So, with the big stack and most with <11 BB, you would push with everything you play with?

Not every hand obv. But I think shoving pre puts the decision on the short stacks plus gives us more fold equity. With monsters it is ok to r/c, because we raise to induce a shove from the short stacks. In the end you have to play effective stacks and adjust your ranges accordingly, but in this case Q6o is not a hand you should be trying to bully with, so fold pre.

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