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Blindsteal deep in  20k. Facing donkbet Blindsteal deep in  20k. Facing donkbet

03-07-2011 , 04:05 AM
Is the steal bad? And what do we do on the flop?

[converted_hand][hand_history]Poker Stars, $5 Buy-in (2,500/5,000 blinds, 500 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 9 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #8115602

MP2: 106,761 (21.4 bb)
Hero (MP3): 106,522 (21.3 bb)
CO: 134,624 (26.9 bb)
BTN: 125,152 (25 bb)
SB: 179,698 (35.9 bb)
BB: 26,964 (5.4 bb)
UTG+1: 116,999 (23.4 bb)
UTG+2: 284,577 (56.9 bb)
MP1: 132,906 (26.6 bb)

Preflop: (4,500) Hero is MP3 with A 5
4 folds, Hero raises to 12,000, 2 folds, SB calls 9,500, BB folds

Flop: (33,500) 3 8 Q (2 players)
SB bets 20,000
Blindsteal deep in  20k. Facing donkbet Quote
03-07-2011 , 04:34 AM
just minraise pre and snapfold now. at least shove a hand with Equity like 87s or 99
Blindsteal deep in  20k. Facing donkbet Quote
03-07-2011 , 10:14 AM
Fold pre, but I actually like jamming the flop over this lead...donk-bluffing from the blinds vs a button raiser is the fish equivalent of light 3betting. It's very hard for him to have a Q here and pretty easy for you to have one, and he almost never leads with a Q because he's expecting you to be weak so he'll miss value if he does.
Blindsteal deep in  20k. Facing donkbet Quote
03-07-2011 , 10:19 AM
Fold pre, really torn between shoving and folding folp, probably lean on the side of folding, are stack size is kinda big to shove as well ie. we need to get alot of folds to make it profitable.
Blindsteal deep in  20k. Facing donkbet Quote
03-07-2011 , 10:51 AM
Raise pre is fine imo - less would be better though.

OTF - ginger is right that he should rarely have a Q here but dont know if that holds true enough in a $5 to make shoving > folding. My default would be to fold.
Blindsteal deep in  20k. Facing donkbet Quote
03-07-2011 , 11:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by davethedave2
Raise pre is fine imo - less would be better though.

OTF - ginger is right that he should rarely have a Q here but dont know if that holds true enough in a $5 to make shoving > folding. My default would be to fold.
Yeah I see your point. We have no info about villain actually, which doesn't help our decision here.

I'd say shoving the flop is bad vs villains from, say, the top 10% of the field in terms of skill level as they're more likely to call you down light, and bad vs villains from the bottom 30% of the field or so because they're more likely to have a Q, but good against anyone else.

We want villain to be good enough to know our button raise is with a wide range, but bad enough to think donking this flop reps a Q; bad enough to flat OOP on 21bb effective, but good enough to try to take the pot down when they miss instead of just c/f; bad enough not to 3bet light when he thinks we're weak, but not so bad that he donks this flop with a Q.

Our read here has to be very precise, which means we need way more info from OP.
Blindsteal deep in  20k. Facing donkbet Quote

      
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