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Big mistake or not? Big mistake or not?

11-02-2020 , 12:04 PM
20 euros tournament, no info about the opponent.
What do you think? Is it a fold on the turn or a check-fold on the river?
Did I make a big mistake in this spot?

partypoker, €20 + €0 - Hold'em No Limit - 5,000/10,000 (1,200 ante) - 8 players
Replay this hand on Pokeit

Bobty092 (UTG): 360,600 (36 bb)
Pygargue05 (UTG+1): 392,550 (39 bb)
JuStSpauld (MP): 331,304 (33 bb)
guasom77 (MP+1): 317,696 (32 bb)
Tekmany10 (CO): 245,442 (25 bb)
MESCOUILLEENSKI (BU): 447,496 (45 bb)
le germivore (SB): 103,600 (10 bb)
Gae420 (BB): 372,480 (37 bb)

Pre-Flop: (24,600) Hero (Gae420) is BB with Q K
4 players fold, Tekmany10 (CO) raises to 30,000, MESCOUILLEENSKI (BU) calls 30,000, 1 fold, Gae420 (BB) calls 20,000

Flop: (104,600) 9 Q T (3 players)
Gae420 (BB) checks, Tekmany10 (CO) checks, MESCOUILLEENSKI (BU) bets 52,300, Gae420 (BB) calls 52,300, Tekmany10 (CO) folds

Turn: (209,200) T (2 players)
Gae420 (BB) checks, MESCOUILLEENSKI (BU) bets 90,000, Gae420 (BB) calls 90,000

River: (389,200) 2 (2 players)
Gae420 (BB) bets 198,980 (all-in), MESCOUILLEENSKI (BU) calls 198,980

Total pot: 787,160

Showdown:
Gae420 (BB) shows Q K (two pair, Queens and Tens)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 45%, Flop: 15%, Turn: 9%, River: 0%)

MESCOUILLEENSKI (BU) shows 9 9 (a full house, Nines full of Tens)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 55%, Flop: 85%, Turn: 91%, River: 100%)

MESCOUILLEENSKI (BU) wins 787,160
Big mistake or not? Quote
11-02-2020 , 12:28 PM
I think it's a tough spot as the board is very draw heavy and V is repping a very polarized range. For me it probably depends on reads and where we are in the tourney ... if it's early and we can reuby, probably call. If we are facing any ICM considerations, fold river ... think I still call turn.
Big mistake or not? Quote
11-03-2020 , 01:56 PM
River shove is a punt.

xc-xc-xc, idk why you would ever donk shove river as you remove V's ability to bluff and pretty much only get called by better.
Big mistake or not? Quote
11-03-2020 , 02:14 PM
This ^. I misread and thought V had shoved and H called.
Big mistake or not? Quote
11-05-2020 , 08:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cito
River shove is a punt.

xc-xc-xc, idk why you would ever donk shove river as you remove V's ability to bluff and pretty much only get called by better.
Don't you think is it possible villain can fold a better hand to my river shove? Hands like A-Q, A-10, K-10 for example?
Once I decide I won't check-fold the river is there a big difference between the shove and the check-call?
I think it's unlikely villain can check back.
Big mistake or not? Quote
11-08-2020 , 09:49 AM
You’ll never fold out better than KQ with SPR 0.5 on river

You will fold out all bluffs, so xc is vastly different to shove

Some fundamentals missing here OP
Big mistake or not? Quote
11-08-2020 , 02:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsilver
You’ll never fold out better than KQ with SPR 0.5 on river

You will fold out all bluffs, so xc is vastly different to shove

Some fundamentals missing here OP
Actually the only hope to fold out a better hand was villain didn't know fundamentals And sometimes you can find opponents that don't consider SPR.
I think you're right anyway, a check-call is much better than this donk shove. With a bigger SPR I think it would have been a check-fold
Big mistake or not? Quote
11-08-2020 , 04:33 PM
Also consider what 3bb open means for opponent.

If he normally opens 2-2.2bb then opens 3bb in CO, it’s usually significant. Can mean a narrower range (typically one dominated by 77+). Can also mean full range raising into active / deep big blind, but that’s not the case here. If V is going to give you that free info pre, take advantage of it.
Big mistake or not? Quote
11-08-2020 , 08:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsilver
Also consider what 3bb open means for opponent.

If he normally opens 2-2.2bb then opens 3bb in CO, itÂ’s usually significant. Can mean a narrower range (typically one dominated by 77+). Can also mean full range raising into active / deep big blind, but thatÂ’s not the case here. If V is going to give you that free info pre, take advantage of it.
The CO opener actually folded on the flop after the BU bet.
I think the BU flatting range can be quite wide with of course a few 10 combos.
I think there could be a few worst hands than mine he could bet on the flop and the turn, maybe he has a straight draw, not easy to know. Maybe with this stack and no information about the villain a fold on the turn can be a good choice.
Big mistake or not? Quote
11-09-2020 , 07:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gae80
The CO opener actually folded on the flop after the BU bet.
I think the BU flatting range can be quite wide with of course a few 10 combos.
I think there could be a few worst hands than mine he could bet on the flop and the turn, maybe he has a straight draw, not easy to know. Maybe with this stack and no information about the villain a fold on the turn can be a good choice.
Ah roger that. Bit hard to read. Did the hand converter not work for some reason? It does glitch occasionally on certain HH formats.

That certainly does change how I see V range and xc xc xc is pretty standard, although an exploitative fold on turn is by no means out of the question. River is 100% xc if you get there.
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11-10-2020 , 06:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsilver
Ah roger that. Bit hard to read. Did the hand converter not work for some reason? It does glitch occasionally on certain HH formats.

That certainly does change how I see V range and xc xc xc is pretty standard, although an exploitative fold on turn is by no means out of the question. River is 100% xc if you get there.
I don't know, I entered the hand history and the hand converter converted the hand this way.
Yes, with this very small SPR I can never fold on the river.
Thank you for your tips oldsilver, i really appreciate.
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