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Big 22 Confusing turn spot with a flush and a loltastic river Big 22 Confusing turn spot with a flush and a loltastic river

12-04-2013 , 06:11 PM
This hand is pretty strange, just moved to the table. So yeah I decide to flat 97s on the button vs utg raiser and take it to the streets. SB comes along and we arrive at a 3 way flop. Pick up the pair + fd which is great, feel I'm too deep to raise this and I have the benefit of position on the turn.

Turn, we get there on a pretty heavy flush completing card and UTG bets small. Do we raise here? Sizing? Plan for possible action we could face?
I flat? Cos position and to evaluate what SB does.

River completes JT and SB open jams splitting his range in a pretty hard and unbalanced way. Now what?


    Poker Stars, $20 Buy-in (1,600/3,200 blinds, 400 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 8 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #21337971

    MP2: 140,723 (44 bb)
    MP3: 62,300 (19.5 bb)
    CO: 55,155 (17.2 bb)
    Hero (BTN): 271,172 (84.7 bb)
    SB: 190,254 (59.5 bb)
    BB: 57,558 (18 bb)
    UTG+2: 175,486 (54.8 bb)
    MP1: 67,658 (21.1 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BTN with 7 9
    UTG+2 raises to 6,400, 4 folds, Hero calls 6,400, SB calls 4,800, BB folds

    Flop: (25,600) Q 4 9 (3 players)
    SB checks, UTG+2 bets 9,600, Hero calls 9,600, SB calls 9,600

    Turn: (54,400) 3 (3 players)
    SB checks, UTG+2 bets 16,000, Hero calls 16,000, SB calls 16,000

    River: (102,400) K (3 players)
    SB bets 157,854 and is all-in, UTG folds, Hero....




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    Big 22 Confusing turn spot with a flush and a loltastic river Quote
    12-04-2013 , 06:13 PM
    raise gii on turn. not sure why youre flatting a 1/4 pot bet
    Big 22 Confusing turn spot with a flush and a loltastic river Quote
    12-04-2013 , 06:21 PM
    think I`m fine with your decisions and I think he doesn`t over-bet shoves non-flush combos into 2 uncapped ranges.

    Last edited by dereds; 12-04-2013 at 07:18 PM. Reason: don't
    Big 22 Confusing turn spot with a flush and a loltastic river Quote
    12-04-2013 , 06:23 PM
    It all seems a little passive. I prefer 3b/fold or fold preflop, raise flop, raise turn.
    Big 22 Confusing turn spot with a flush and a loltastic river Quote
    12-04-2013 , 06:27 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by betgo
    It all seems a little passive. I prefer 3b/fold or fold preflop, raise flop, raise turn.
    +1 and call river as played.

    I don't like to flat here PF unless I know raiser is bad or has some particular tendencies. Not a bad hand to 3-bet with on the button particularly if UTG+1 raiser folds to 3-bet a lot.

    And SB is not as polarized as you suspected.
    Big 22 Confusing turn spot with a flush and a loltastic river Quote
    12-04-2013 , 06:38 PM
    nipples suck...
    Big 22 Confusing turn spot with a flush and a loltastic river Quote
    12-04-2013 , 06:46 PM
    i like pre

    turn is ok too, i don't think it's a sin not to raise. for instance on this river card (the times sb doesn't spaz jam) i think your river raises get paid off a lot. you are pretty unlikely to get paid off on your turn raise and your river bet (when he checks river to you like he usually will after he bet/calls turn oop), and you don't necessarily love life getting it in on the turn

    do we know anything about sb? i agree he should probably have it here if he's piling into two uncapped ranges, but you're gonna get people doing that with the naked Ac cause they have a blocker to the nuts and theyre salty they missed river

    i smh and call
    Big 22 Confusing turn spot with a flush and a loltastic river Quote
    12-04-2013 , 07:53 PM
    Have been here repeatedly and learned fold is best in my experience.
    Big 22 Confusing turn spot with a flush and a loltastic river Quote
    12-04-2013 , 07:55 PM
    Dereds, I spoiled it wtf? u mad?
    Seems you also don`t like Julianne Moore..
    Big 22 Confusing turn spot with a flush and a loltastic river Quote
    12-04-2013 , 07:56 PM
    think its kind of nice to raise flop here w tons of equity
    think turn has to be a raise
    river has to be a fold
    Big 22 Confusing turn spot with a flush and a loltastic river Quote
    12-04-2013 , 08:44 PM
    Not raising the turn is criminal especially with the utg+2's sizing. You are missing a tonne of value. River is a lolsnapcall.
    Big 22 Confusing turn spot with a flush and a loltastic river Quote
    12-04-2013 , 08:54 PM
    As Greg I am fine flatting pre
    Flop good
    Turn is most interesting. I think we should be raising but could be convinced otherwise
    River feels like a call mostly because of how we played the other streets
    Big 22 Confusing turn spot with a flush and a loltastic river Quote
    12-04-2013 , 08:56 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by WashUrHandsPlz
    Seems you also don`t like Julianne Moore..
    That's not even her best feature, Wash. Kind of an odd choice.

    Last edited by bikram; 12-04-2013 at 08:56 PM. Reason: the carpet matches the drapes.
    Big 22 Confusing turn spot with a flush and a loltastic river Quote
    12-04-2013 , 08:58 PM
    we shouldn`t (and not necessarily perceived to) raise turned flushes ott 3way with player yet to act (esp that low one). we`re never balanced there and its only calling for troubles. we also in terrible shape vs UTG 3betting range (or SB cold 3betting range). And r/f-ing flush 3way is kinda dumb.
    Big 22 Confusing turn spot with a flush and a loltastic river Quote
    12-04-2013 , 09:13 PM
    Folding pre as a default without reads on UTG+2.

    Calling flop is fine in my opinion.

    I prefer raise/gii on the turn because I'd rather not allow AcX to draw to the river so cheaply and I think a fourth club kills action vs lots of made hands we currently beat.

    Not sure about river. Leaning towards fold as I agree with WashUrHandsPlz that it's strange for him to overjam a hand like JTdd into two players both of whom can have the nut flush.
    Big 22 Confusing turn spot with a flush and a loltastic river Quote
    12-04-2013 , 09:16 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by WashUrHandsPlz
    we shouldn`t (and not necessarily perceived to) raise turned flushes ott 3way with player yet to act (esp that low one). we`re never balanced there and its only calling for troubles. we also in terrible shape vs UTG 3betting range (or SB cold 3betting range). And r/f-ing flush 3way is kinda dumb.
    i agree with these sentiments
    Big 22 Confusing turn spot with a flush and a loltastic river Quote
    12-04-2013 , 09:37 PM
    to all those speculating that he missed the nut flush, have you stopped to think about what hands that include the Ac would be flatting pre and flop?

    the more interesting river question is whether people are doing this often enough with JT. answer seems like probably not--pretty clear fold.
    Big 22 Confusing turn spot with a flush and a loltastic river Quote
    12-04-2013 , 09:42 PM
    turn is def. the most interesting street. i feel like if we can't raise and figure out what to do when we occasionally are reraised, then $22s have gotten a lot harder.
    Big 22 Confusing turn spot with a flush and a loltastic river Quote
    12-04-2013 , 09:43 PM
    I'm generally not a fan of these types of arguments because I think we should always give ourselves the opportunity to make wise mid-hand adjustments, but I will throw this out there anyway because I think it's somewhat relevant here.

    Where is the value in flatting with 97suited here if we underrepresent our hand, only commit 8 additional BBs to the pot and fold to a river bet where the SB is taking a fairly unusual line for value with a flush? Think about all of the times SB will either a) lead flop with FD, b) raise flop with FD, c) lead turn with made flush, d) raise turn with made flush or e) after taking this unusual line with a flush OTT, use a bet-sizing OTR that is more likely to be called?
    Big 22 Confusing turn spot with a flush and a loltastic river Quote
    12-04-2013 , 11:31 PM
    I like your whole line and would call the river expecting to see J10 way to often. Expect villain to be raising the turn with a flush much more often than taking this line.
    Big 22 Confusing turn spot with a flush and a loltastic river Quote
    12-05-2013 , 06:04 AM
    I like the passive line if we call down every riverbet.
    Think raising flop is fine, but if villain is giving us value on our flush, I don't see why we should raise as we are IP and can probably get some value on river aswell.
    Big 22 Confusing turn spot with a flush and a loltastic river Quote
    12-05-2013 , 01:24 PM
    who cares about balance in mtts? no one knows wtf is happening and in a 22 its not like villains are like oh so sick he can never raise/call this turn w o the nuts so i shall exploit!
    its usually more like "oh hes repping so thin better call and evaluate river"

    Oh and i misclicked my last post riv is kinda close not really sure
    Big 22 Confusing turn spot with a flush and a loltastic river Quote
    12-05-2013 , 05:18 PM
    I guess river sucks cos we are not good always but ffs @ just clicking call all the way then folding river when we have made our hand

    I think calling small turn bet is ok heads up but 3 way I prefer raise
    Big 22 Confusing turn spot with a flush and a loltastic river Quote
    12-05-2013 , 06:47 PM
    I think if utg had bet turn bigger and we called there is a better case for folding river. You could make the argument that we're uncapped so his jamming range has to be better flushes, but we should have a ton more hands in our turn peeling range because of the price so it will be pretty rare for him to run into our nut hands, and therefore I think if he had it otr he would lead smaller. I'm calling.
    Big 22 Confusing turn spot with a flush and a loltastic river Quote
    12-05-2013 , 07:21 PM
    Only a derpy ****** is going to take this line with anything, and a derpy ****** is absolutely capable of showing up with worse here.
    Big 22 Confusing turn spot with a flush and a loltastic river Quote

          
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