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Big .50. Is this shove profitable enough? Big .50. Is this shove profitable enough?

09-24-2013 , 06:10 AM
Hey

I have villain pegged as a loose spazzy player. He was playing an averaged VPIP/PFR of about 45/25 from the MP/CO/BUT positions over about 110 hands. These stats are backed up my observations of this first hand below (villain is MP2) from one orbit ago which shows that his actual opening range is likely even wider than his stats indicate:


    Poker Stars, $15 Buy-in (75/150 blinds, 20 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 9 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #19561451

    MP3: 20,000 (133.3 bb)
    CO: 4,444 (29.6 bb)
    Hero (BTN): 2,280 (15.2 bb)
    SB: 4,051 (27 bb)
    BB: 5,280 (35.2 bb)
    UTG+1: 1,835 (12.2 bb)
    UTG+2: 13,725 (91.5 bb)
    MP1: 11,440 (76.3 bb)
    MP2: 11,402 (76 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BTN with 5 2
    3 folds, MP2 raises to 300, 4 folds, BB calls 150

    Flop: (855) 5 7 6 (2 players)
    BB checks, MP2 bets 225, BB calls 225

    Turn: (1,305) T (2 players)
    BB checks, MP2 bets 975, BB calls 975

    River: (3,255) 5 (2 players)
    BB checks, MP2 bets 975, BB calls 975

    Results: 5,205 pot
    Final Board: 5 7 6 T 5
    BB mucked 4 6 and lost (-2,495 net)
    MP2 showed T 6 and won 5,205 (2,710 net)



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    So with this info, if we give villain an assumed very wide opening range of something like 64%, and that he calls a shove 100% of the time (maybe he folds the very bottom of his range. See the hand below though) then our equity against his range is about 51%. Doing the EV math on this we would net 3195 on average from shoving. If we fold we would have 2820 chips. So this is a difference of 1.9 BB's (or 13.3% of our stack).

    I'm guessing there may be some different opinions about what opening range i'm giving villain (if we take out the bottom 14% of my above assumed 64% range our equity only drops to 49%).

    In the hand i shoved and the results are below (obv the actual result of the hand is not important). What I would like to know is whether we have to take this spot for this amount of +EV with our somewhat small stack, or are we best to wait for a better spot, value our tourney life, etc etc?

    Thanks

    p.s. when i made the shove in-game i assumed i would fold out these bottom hands of his opening range. My above comments/calc's are based on what now seems to be the fact that he doesn't like folding after opening.


      Poker Stars, $15 Buy-in (100/200 blinds, 25 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 9 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #19561441

      CO: 20,190 (101 bb)
      BTN: 3,959 (19.8 bb)
      Hero (SB): 2,945 (14.7 bb)
      BB: 3,791 (19 bb)
      UTG+1: 5,660 (28.3 bb)
      UTG+2: 2,365 (11.8 bb)
      MP1: 13,290 (66.5 bb)
      MP2: 11,190 (56 bb)
      MP3: 11,067 (55.3 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is SB with A 3
      4 folds, MP3 raises to 400, 2 folds, Hero raises to 2,920 and is all-in, BB folds, MP3 calls 2,520

      Flop: (6,265) J 8 7 (2 players, 1 is all-in)
      Turn: (6,265) J (2 players, 1 is all-in)
      River: (6,265) 4 (2 players, 1 is all-in)

      Results: 6,265 pot
      Final Board: J 8 7 J 4
      Hero showed A 3 and lost (-2,945 net)
      MP3 showed 4 7 and won 6,265 (3,320 net)



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      Big .50. Is this shove profitable enough? Quote
      09-24-2013 , 06:35 AM
      Given villains stats and his opening range, this seems like a pretty standard shove IMO

      It's defo the correct play
      You shouldn't be results oriented but instead be decision oriented

      You made the correct decision, you just got unlucky
      Big .50. Is this shove profitable enough? Quote
      09-24-2013 , 07:00 AM
      Yea, its actually more profitable to shove hands like that against these players because you know they're calling light. On the bubble you might avoid these high variance spots because of ICM implications but that's a whole other topic.
      Big .50. Is this shove profitable enough? Quote
      09-24-2013 , 07:08 AM
      Yup looks fine
      Big .50. Is this shove profitable enough? Quote
      09-24-2013 , 11:59 AM
      Nh
      Big .50. Is this shove profitable enough? Quote
      09-25-2013 , 04:47 AM
      lost a flip, unlucky. GG
      Big .50. Is this shove profitable enough? Quote
      09-25-2013 , 05:08 AM
      Seems a bit too loose as a default but fine given description of villain.
      Big .50. Is this shove profitable enough? Quote
      09-25-2013 , 09:35 AM
      fine
      Big .50. Is this shove profitable enough? Quote
      09-25-2013 , 04:05 PM
      Fine against the villain who you have info on, just ul.
      Big .50. Is this shove profitable enough? Quote
      09-26-2013 , 09:27 AM
      /thread
      Big .50. Is this shove profitable enough? Quote
      09-26-2013 , 10:09 AM
      Just fine vs villians opening range, here far away from Money i take the chance.

      At the bouble i might fold, since he is not going to fold much with thoose stats.
      Big .50. Is this shove profitable enough? Quote
      09-27-2013 , 11:10 PM
      fine against a player with 45/25 stats
      Big .50. Is this shove profitable enough? Quote
      09-29-2013 , 05:26 AM
      I'm going to go against the grain and say fold it. I agree that mathematically and based on stats its fine but I just think with 14bbs you can wait for a better spot here. Im not a mathematical based player but A3 is not that great and yes you might have the equity but theres a lot of hands that he will have at least 40% or more here. If he is a bad as you say he is you might get 77, a10 plus in a few hands and be a 65% dominant favourite at worst likely 70%
      Big .50. Is this shove profitable enough? Quote
      09-29-2013 , 06:47 AM
      yeah sure let's ignore reads and wait for better spots with 14xbb, JJ+ or AK should come sometimes
      Big .50. Is this shove profitable enough? Quote

            
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