Betgo, if this is how you truly feel (and with how many times you've posted ~ this over and over I'd have to imagine it is), why are you still posting here?

Please don't say to defend yourself, because you're just making it worse. If you hadn't bumped this thread/continued to post in HSMTT, this wouldn't be happening.

For the love of god, don't even respond to this post. Just stop.

In answer to SM's latest rant, it is possible GrinderSchool made changes to my profile in response to his smear campaign and they probably would not have informed me. I provided excellent recent statistics for all areas I advertised for and coached. I do not currently coach, as I have explained over and over.

I will describe everything with my playing and coaching.

2004-2008, I played mid to high stakes MTTs, and was winning pretty big and continually moving up in stakes. 2009-2010, I was not winning much playing online MTTs. I moved down in level a little and that didn't help. I think a lot people had trouble adjusting to the changes in the games. I also was had nonpoker issues and did not have good confidence.

In mid to late 2010, I started to move down in MTT stakes further and play more MTTSNGs, mostly 45s and 180s. I didn't like playing one and two table SNGs as it was so ICM oriented, which didn't suit my aggressive style.

About September 2010, I placed a coaching ad for “MTTSNG and low stakes MTT coaching” at $50/hour. I provided recent MTTSNG stats showing I had one of the highest ROIs in 45s and 180s in 2009 and 2010 and stats showing over $500K in net profit in online MTTs from earlier. The rate was about what I was making at that time, once I switched to MTTSNGs and low to mid stakes MTTs.

In 2011, as mentioned, before BF, I had the highest ROI by far in $16/18s. I raised my coaching rate somewhat, but it was still well below my rate from playing.

After, BF, initially I mostly played live cash and MTTs. I then got back into playing MTTSNGs on Stars. I did not publish stats since BF at the time SM launched into his smear campaign. I did not coach much, and was not going to play stuff to get stats for coaching. That seems pretty weird.

I play professionally and do well. I play mid to high stakes MTTs. I am not posting stats, as I am not marketing anything, but I wouldn't do it without significant profits. As mentioned, I stopped coaching in 2011, for various reasons, one of which was the smear campaign.

I was making 6 figures in software work in the 1990s. At that time, I was not happy with where my career was. I am a Johns Hopkins graduate. About 2/3 of the people there go to medical school or a top 20 law or MBA school. I assume that most make $200K+/year.

I was used to posting here, but I am sure I was not top level and my analysis of high stakes play between top players. I wasn't posting to show off. Maybe I shouldn't have posted in some threads. My impression though was that everyone posting here was not currently crushing high stakes. Even SM made a big thing about being broke, and I can't see how you could be that broke if you were winning big.

That someone may not give good advice on the highest level of play does not mean he is giving bad coaching advice at lower stakes or cannot beat mid stakes games.


I didn't have any idea that some disturbed person would extrapolate from some of my posts that I was a fraudulent coach and launch into a smear campaign. That I may have posted something questionable does not justify launching into a smear campaign to damage my business and reputation. It also does not justify 2+2 allowing a blatant smear campaign in “Coaching Advice” and elsewhere.

I provided recent statistics showing big ROI in the areas I advertised for and coached. I did not misrepresent anything. I did not coach much. I never did anything unethical in my coaching. I find it totally unacceptable that a blatant smear and defamation campaign was allowed to continue with over 100 posts. Any claims of fraud, scamming and the like are blatant lies, smears, libel, and defamation with absolutely no basis in fact.

popcorn. gif

but

get a life you wayners

This is what I object to. He is falsely implying that I am currently looking for coaching business. I did one lesson in the last year.

All I did to solicit coaching business was to post an advertisement. I never did anything else to try to get business. Also, I got clients primarily due to good current statistics and good reviews.

I did not get business primarily because I said I understood ICM. You can argue about that issue, but it isn't relevant.

You made accusations of fraud and attempted through hundreds of posts in the Coaching Advice Forum and elsewhere to warn people about my coaching services. Your reasons are my supposedly not understanding ICM and other technical issues.

You also made all sorts of implications about my supposed unethical practices without basis.

This is what I consider a smear campaign or a defamation campaign.

.

Seeing as Betgo agrees that he used to advertise his coaching services in HSMTT and also several posts show he advertised his coaching services in HSMTT, and he doesn't deny that he claimed to having expertise in ICM yet having been proven (and admitting himself) to be clueless, there isn't much else left to say.

I don't know how you find this to be 'defamation.' The facts are out there. All that is left is for you to refund your students, stfu and let the thread die, or hold on to your money you obtained while fraudulently misrepresenting yourself as having poker skills and aptitude you do not possess. (I may add, that these 'skills' are what most would consider to be the 'basics' of poker as well)

Coaching sngs or lowstakes MTTs while ignoring ICM effectively and not once consulting Nash shove ranges is straight up stealing in my opinion regardless what your ROI was many years ago.

I didn't advertise my coaching services in HSMTT. If you placed a tutoring ad, it put out a message "see my coaching listing". I did not want that message to appear, but had no choice.

I did not say I did not consult Nash pushbot ranges. Obviously, I did. The ICM tools available in 2011 were not useful to me for analysis, as I felt their results were not accurate. Obviously, you do not ignore the ICM effect. There are better Nash tools for analyzing payout related situations available now, but you can't take figures from software as Gospel.

I don't want to get into a discussion of ICM, but you obviously don't want to ignore ICM. However, the figures from ICM software are not accurate with 7+ players left in MTTs, and will lead to too tight decisions of you play straight by them. Some people want to use results from software and apply no judgments to them, which I disagree with.

I was presenting recent statistics of top results for everything I coached. As mentioned, I was beating $16/18s with by far the highest ROI when I was coaching. I believe that part of my edge was applying some judgments and not playing straight by software recommendation. Obviously, playing straight cEV would be awful, but I generally pushed and called wider than the software recommended.

As is well known, ICM does not consider future play, and I had a good understanding of how to adjust ranges, tighter or looser based on the situation, and situation that would result with a steal, fold, or double up. It is totally ludicrous to suggest that anyone could have the highest ROI in 18s in 2011 and ignore ICM. I believe that part of my strength was understanding book ranges and when to make adjustments in them.

I have a problem with the use of terms like fraud and making multiple posts in "Coaching Advice" and so on, when your argument is not that I was unethical in dealings, overcharged, or did not have the recent stats for what I was coaching, but that you disagreed with my approach to ICM or something.

Whether or not you wanted that message to appear, it did.

Therefore, you advertised your coaching services in HSMTT.

I know you are stupid, betgo. But you can't really be that stupid I hope. You spammed thousands of posts with terrible advice no matter how often people made fun of your obvious flaws in logic. And despite saying IN THIS VERY THREAD you would stop posting.

And each post had 'see my coaching listing' next to it.

You are talking in circles and spewing nonsense (as usual)

Just stop posting in HSMTT, and do as you wish, and this thread will die. Each time you post with more idiocy, I have to point it out. And your videos show you don't consult Nash ranges. You are a fool who managed to make a meager living back when games were insanely soft and everyone was calling/pushing way too tight so you could just 'shove loose' while having no knowledge of theory/poker.

Just stop! Or refund coaches, or at least issue an apology, or let this thread die. idc! You aren't getting anywhere, and aren't even willing to contest my claims.

I think if you aren't willing to try to disprove my allegations that you were
1. posting constant (bad) advice in twoplustwo HSMTT with (see my coaching listing)
2. grinderschool.com /other websites had your coaching bio
3. In that coaching bio amongst other hilarious things like showing your NY Backraise/other 'tricky' stuff you claimed you were an expert in ICM (because you were teaching sngs/mtts and you show your roi in sngs)

After it was clear that you weren't what you claimed to be, and basically just an idiot behind the time who is sucking money from the absolute lowest of the low (both on 2p2 and in the pre-bf games) they changed the profile.

If you can accept that all these things are true, as you have in bits and pieces in this thread, then you can clearly see that this isn't a 'defamation campaign' and you clearly fraudulently misrepresented yourself as having expertise you did not have to solicit people to coach. Congrats!

I understand your point about the “see my coaching listing” message. I needed to be more aware of that and more careful about what forums and threads I posted in and what I posted. I had been posting here for a long time, and didn't think through how much changes I needed to make. Also, I was probably a little upset by BF and wasn't thinking clearly about some things.

I would have been glad to discuss my approach to ICM as I just did. Obviously, I wasn't crushing 2-tables completely ignoring ICM. It is not really helpful to make the assumption that people are idiots and try to show them up.

I do think what the other poster said about conflict resolution is relevant. There are maybe other ways of handling things than making hundreds of posts in “Coaching Advice” calling me a fraud and scammer and warning people about my coaching services. Also, it is possible the moderators could have handled it a little differently.

I am fine with dropping this now too. However, perhaps some people can see my concerns about this sort of thing.

I'm perfectly fine with how I handled it. I don't wish to talk much poker strategy with you though. I'd prefer you just keep your promise and stop posting in HSMTT. This thread can die then.

I think this might be a first but here I go.

Honestly, I am not a fan of betgo, but I seriously think people are just jumping on bandwagons to defame him constantly which he clearly doesn't deserve. Even after hearing people give him ****, he is very respectful and polite in his responses. Constantly steering the topic away instead of creating issues.

I don't think you're a winner anymore - but I honestly have mad respect for your attitude and being the bigger man by not attacking people on personal levels for defaming you.

lol this is my favorite recurring line of this whole thing, btw

every time it gets repeated i sit and wonder what the relevance is, then i laugh

I seem to have gotten myself into a lot of trouble posting here. When I had that coaching message and I posted in something not my area, I would have to say I am not a coach of this. If some of you guys posted in the stud forum or high stakes cash or something, you might not look so great.

In any field, you can be good in your area, but not as good in another specialty or at a higher level. It doesn't mean you are incompetent or a fraud at what you do. I could give many examples of this.

I apologize if I posted where I shouldn't have. I certainly don't think I am on the level of SM or other top players at high stakes MTT strategy.

I probably thought I still had things to contribute in areas I had been well regarded here in the past. I also was interested in discussing things, whether or not I was an expert, and didn't understand the huge issue of the coaching message. I certainly wasn't expecting someone to launch into this smear campaign in response to my posts.

As for BF, I was pretty shook up by it, not being able to play the main place I had been and not being able to get my money. It may have effected my judgment somewhat, as I said. I guess it didn't bother anyone else.

I have pretty much said enough about SM's charges, and he doesn't want to discuss it more, which is understandable. I understand now more why he undertook this smear campaign. He implied that he was mad about my posts and discussions with him, thought I must be a spammer trying to promote coaching services, and decided to get me.

SM apparently didn't realize until now that I was presenting current top statistics in MTTSNGs from the beginning of my coaching. I don't know how he thought I would get business for MTTSNGs based on old MTT stats.

He repeatedly called me a professional coach. I made more (and very consistently) from play in the 3 months before BF than I could have coaching 50 hours a week at my coaching rate. So how is that a professional coach?

Whom did I defraud and scam? No student came forward to say anything bad about my coaching. What shady practices did I use?

I kind of have more of an understanding my SM embarked on the defamation project, why he seemed so angry, and why some people here told the mods to allow his attacks.

However, I do question whether this is acceptable or appropriate on the part of SM and 2+2. It is a violation of civil to print blatant defamation. It also is not good conflict resolution, to use the other poster's phrase.

I didn't print any blatant defamation and I don't believe you make money playing poker since BF. I realized you beat lowstakes sngs before black friday while being clueless. Congrats.

OMG, I've been off my 2+2 addiction for a few months now. Randomly took a look at this thread and I'm on a binge again!

Whether or not I may be clueless, I was advertising coaching services at reasonable rates at a time when I was beating a “low stakes SNG” with a 4% higher ROI than anyone else. The game was mostly regs and many of them were break even rakeback players. If you can beat a game that is mostly regs with way the highest ROI, it makes no sense that you somehow became a fraud and can't make money at all on poker.

I had excellent reviews from my students in the coaching thread and someone with credentials as a strong player and poster decides to launch into a campaign making hundreds of posts calling me a fraud, scammer and so on with no basis. I thought I had good current statistics for what I was coaching, was not coaching much, and was following totally ethical practices. I could crush what I represented to coach, MTTSNGs and low stakes MTTs.

There were other people advertising coaching in the same listing at declining rate starting at like $200/hour, who had better stats from before and did videos for more prestigious sites than I did, and admitted to being professional coaches and not playing any more. If you were legitimately concerned about unethical coaching, I think you could have started there.

Betgo you've said the same thing sixteen times. Let it die.

betgo, the fact that you keep posting ITT saying these terrible posts is proof enough you are an inept coach. I'm actually surprised you are able to tie your own shoes in the morning.

Yeah, I don't have anything more to say on this. Happy Thanksgiving and congratulations again on your deep run.

Because of this:
you shoulda left it at that:
He is pulling your strings. Playing you like a violin. This is like online judo: anything you do is going to be turned against you. You cannot win.

I have made my point like the other poster said. I think most people can see what was going on.

just curious what your words per minute is betgo