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bet turn, river filled draws??? bet turn, river filled draws???

06-01-2008 , 05:59 PM
it happened again? what do i do here on river. How else would you have played this hand? do you bet the flop?

Poker Stars $5.00+$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t500/t1000 Blinds - 9 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

UTG: t56381
UTG+1: t18886
UTG+2: t62405
MP1: t52206
MP2: t9997
CO: t55230
BTN: t8775
Hero (SB): t36589
BB: t16085

Pre Flop: Hero is SB with T 5
2 folds, UTG+2 calls t1000, MP1 calls t1000, 3 folds, Hero calls t500, BB checks

Flop: (t4900) 4 2 6 (4 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks

Turn: (t4900) T (4 players)
Hero bets t2200, BB folds, UTG+2 calls t2200, MP1 folds

River: (t9300) Q (2 players)
Hero ?? [color=red]
bet turn, river filled draws??? Quote
06-01-2008 , 06:14 PM
Fold preflop to start with.

Flop, absolutely no way I'm leading out with T high. Turn is a fine bet, but if you're going to bet, I bet more towards 4000, probably right around that. I don't think you can just automatically put villain on the flush (draw) by calling the turn there. If you've seen villain as pretty laggy or a nit depends if I c/f or c/c.
bet turn, river filled draws??? Quote
06-01-2008 , 06:17 PM
fold pre, checkfold down imo. I don't lead on the 10 turn oop 4 way since if someone flatcalls like this you have no idea where you are. I'd checkfold the river except to a really small bet.
bet turn, river filled draws??? Quote
06-01-2008 , 09:45 PM
What is that call preflop? what are you hoping to hit with T5o? You are also out of position to make things even worse. I would bet the turn just to not have to show what hands I am limping from sb....
bet turn, river filled draws??? Quote
06-02-2008 , 12:23 AM
geeze you guys are so nitty. If I ever played against you I wouldn't put a single chip into the pot. I mean honestly are you folding 22 here also bec you are out of position and will only flop a set 1 n 7 or 8 times = .12% of the time when the pot is laying you 10% equity. Its 500 more to win 4500. Its not like I have 10bb or anything where id be getting reverse implied odds. Everyone else in this hand has plenty of chips aslo. Y not put 500 more in and stop being so damn nitty and see a flop. Maybe I need to start playing nitty bec everything I post everyone is so damn tight. I dont really understand.

thanks for the responses tho I will keep them in my mind as I try to improve.
bet turn, river filled draws??? Quote
06-02-2008 , 12:45 AM
now that I think about this more, I can totally see where you need to fold here. For some reason I was thinking 30bb is deep when it is not. Thanks for pointing out my big errors here. I appreciate it greatly.

edit: what would be the acceptable stack size to be able to complete in the sb here?

thanks once again guys. I am not trying to downplay your opinions. I am just trying to argue different points of view to see which ones are the most effective and I will be the first to acknowledge when I am wrong as in this case. Thanks again.

edit2: is there any articles on 2+2 that I could read about blind play to help improve my game? thanks again

Last edited by mellyy85; 06-02-2008 at 12:55 AM.
bet turn, river filled draws??? Quote
06-02-2008 , 07:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mellyy85
geeze you guys are so nitty. If I ever played against you I wouldn't put a single chip into the pot. I mean honestly are you folding 22 here also bec you are out of position and will only flop a set 1 n 7 or 8 times = .12% of the time when the pot is laying you 10% equity. Its 500 more to win 4500. Its not like I have 10bb or anything where id be getting reverse implied odds. Everyone else in this hand has plenty of chips aslo. Y not put 500 more in and stop being so damn nitty and see a flop. Maybe I need to start playing nitty bec everything I post everyone is so damn tight. I dont really understand.

thanks for the responses tho I will keep them in my mind as I try to improve.
You can't compare T5o to a small pair, the latter will allow you on average to win a big pot if you hit a set. I am not advocating to play nitty, if you feel to play a much wider range of hands because you expect to outplay your opponents postflop I am totally fine with it, but T5o is real trash. The rare times when you will hit the flop strongly you will likely not get any action and the other times you will struggle to understand, as in this case, whether your top pair awful kicker is good or not. Furthermore by completing from the sb you have the worse position of those that will see the flop.
bet turn, river filled draws??? Quote
06-02-2008 , 08:02 AM
fold pre
bet turn, river filled draws??? Quote
06-02-2008 , 09:43 AM
If you are competent post flop you can complete here buts its close.

I check/fold river, hopes it gets checked around.

HEY T5o CAN MAKE EVERY 4 CARD STRAIGHT POSSIBLE!!!!
bet turn, river filled draws??? Quote
06-02-2008 , 09:48 AM
I would never bet flop here. Turn is fine. Reads would be very useful for the river. If villain is a laggy player I would c/c. If not, or readless, I would fold.
bet turn, river filled draws??? Quote
06-02-2008 , 10:27 AM
"outplaying" people in a 4 way pot is c/f weak hands and betting strong ones. T5o isn't going to allow us to "outplay" people, unless you advocate bluffing into 3 other players (which to me is a spew). You can complete wide in the SB, but I would suggest connectors, sooted cards and pairs, which is about half of your hands. In short, hands that can make more than 2-pair/trips on the flop. And I am not sure if you can ever be deep enough to play this profitably because flops that you hit hard and someone hits slightly less hard will be very rare (in fact, the opposite is more like as you could hit trip tens and be behind, or bottom 2 pair and be behind, etc).
bet turn, river filled draws??? Quote

      
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