See this just seems silly we want to pot commit ourself with 2x pot and with somewhere between 8-14 outs?

You can see why I'd wonder whether this is good right?

agree with chuck, as played check and probably fold

If we are sometimes ahead and sometimes can get villain to fold, then it might be good. If villain always has a made hand and isn't folding then c/f or c/c is best.

think c/f is probably bad because villain has so few boats in his range, he's not playing T5 pre, and if he has a T he's prob always paying off when we make our hand...of course we have to soul read it when we hit a pair OTR...def think check is best tho, since we have to bet a lot to get ourselves the right odds, that will make his shove range very strong....if we knew for a fact that villain will never raise the turn then betting becomes better imo

We don't know what villains hand is, we need to decide if we want to get it in vs. his range or not and we need to do that now.

Once we have made the decision to do so, it seems to me the least effective way to implement it is by betting large to commit, then calling. All this achieves is some unhappy medium where we have shown enough strength to discourage villains bluff shoves, but have committed to getting in vs the rest of his range which is much stronger. If this is a good play, why don't we raise to 96% of our stack every time preflop, and then call it off when we are shoved on becuase we have given ourselves the correct odds?

The only benefit to betting large would be to realise some fold equity vs underpairs which currently have us beat, in which case we may as well tend to wards just shoving. But if we have decided to commit now, I would much rather bet smaller to induce a wider range from villain. "oh but then we won't have the correct pot odds to call villain off" - this is irrelevant, you already decided you were going to get it it no matter what as you have assessed your equity vs his range before you bet. You would have been required by pot odds to get it in had you bet bigger anyway, all you have done is kelt his rang wider, and hence our equity stronger. Treating our bet, villains shove, and our call as discreet steps each with their own pot odds consoderations leads to ass back conclusions imo.

why does everyone want to bet big on turn to fold out midpairs? rather set up a ~PSB shove for the river and let them call again OTT which is way more profitable than to fold them out on turn + we lose less when we b/f correctly vs his range of Tx and some mid pairs (very very rarely a FD cause we have huge blockers) that gets it in OTT.

I dont want to. I'm just saying this is the only conceivable advantage a larger bet has over a smaller one. I'd much rather either bet smaller the times we decide we want to be in against his range ott, or check the times we dont, and see what odds he gives us to continue.

If villain has a 10 then why is he flat calling OTF? There are two players behind him and he would have every reason to protect against the flush draw and to iso you and steal position for the rest of the hand.

If villain has mid PP then what's he doing flat calling this flop with two players left behind him? He's so sure that none of his three opponents have a 10 that he's gonna ride along OOP with 88 with the flush draw out there too?

If villain has a flush draw then isn't he a little worried about the fact that he's facing a bet with two players left behind him, that he doesn't have the As or the Ks, and two 10s are on the board?

It seems to me that villain is either incorrectly playing those hands, or he's correctly playing 55 (for the flopped boat).

OTT I'd bet 420. He'll need at least trips to jam here. If he flats then it's either a flush draw or a boat.

OTR if you pair up or hit your flush then bet 500. If he missed his draw he'll fold (board to dangerous to make a move, even if he thinks you're unsure who is ahead). If he hit his flush he'll likely just call. He'd really only be raising with a boat.

Playing it out this way seems to be safest; it'll put pressure on his weak hands and reveal his strong hands (while allowing you to keep a decent stack).

coz you don't want people calling you down with something you beat, and you can't trust random's folding abilities on the river after they've called u down 2 streets

win it without showdown yo

edit: plus they might find the fold button on the river only when you fill up

problem is sizing on flop. should be 200.

this too, as played tho i think the only line is to bomb it

+1

you could even bet less on the flop, but be ware that donks will sometimes read that as drawing or being weak so adjust accordingly