The UTG+1 was playing bad doing a lot of limps in this tournament. He did a raise to 200 and here i am in the CO with AQs. I thought he could had a pocket pair or worse then and maybe fold to my shove. What do you think? I'm not sure this is a good move.

Poker Stars $3.00+$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t25/t50 Blinds - 7 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG+1: t1295 M = 17.27
MP: t1060 M = 14.13
Hero (CO): t1425 M = 19
BTN: t1455 M = 19.40
SB: t5740 M = 76.53
BB: t3585 M = 47.80
UTG: t1790 M = 23.87

Pre Flop: (t75) Hero is CO with Q A
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to t200, 1 fold, Hero raises to t1425 all in

I dont like shoving much if he limps alot then his open to 4x is quite scary, flatting>folding>shoving imo we have position also

Yes! I could just call and see if i hit something, but i gonna hit only 1/3, if i don't hit either i can use my position advantage to take the pot. Yeah, is better than shoving, you are right.

...And depending of his action i can easily fold, yes, 200 was scary!

flatting sucks, good shove in a $3

i dont particularly like teh shove.

if hes that bad, hes not folding a pair. and if hes that bad, and you have this much 'info' on him, why race?

that makes him win half the time and u win half the time. if your that much better than him, with these deeper stacks, you should be able to beat him much more than 50% of the time in the long run.

3bet or call. if hes bad, 3bet him.

care to expand on what he his range is what the benfits of shoving are? are we assuming he folds his utg 4x raising range or he calls with worse?

Flatting for 1/6 effective stack isn't going to show a profit if you plan on continuing only on flops we hit.

A bad player is 4x lots of hands we beat here, will call with worse, and will fold a lot.

That doesn't make any sense. If you're going to 3-bet him, you need to put in ~700 correct? His stack is ~1300....

The 3-bet here is a shove, unless I'm missing something.

flatting is groase. shoving seems best, especially with your description of him. antes would make it that much snappier. snaps for brad on his nine kayth.

Hero's M is a 19

when is that considered low? that's 1 M from the Green Zone...

if i take away my option to 3 bet him then im liking calling more. i might even shove to any check to me on the flop.

if an opponent is said to be very weak ill out play him on the flop. and if he has a huge hand and cannot be outplayed there was no way to win in the first place.

i just dont want to end up racing against a very bad opponent.

he should love a 50/50 against a strong opponent. a good opponent shouldnt want to race against a weak one bc it takes away their edge.



if people like to take 50/50 on money, just play blackjack. thats about 49/51 when played right.

I'm saying... look at the stack of the guy you are advocating 3-betting!

If UTG+1 bets 200, he has ~1100 behind...

If you 3-bet him... I'm assuming you would normally 3-bet ~700, correct?

Meaning, the action comes back to UTG+1 as a ~500 raise. His only option is then shove/fold since he will be left with ~600 chips by flatting a 3-bet. Follow me?

Using that logic, the option to 3-bet should be the same as the option to shove because you want to exert the maximum amount of pressure on UTG+1. You know you are not going to fold if he 4-bets all-in for an extra ~600 chips are you? If you aren't going to fold to that, why even give him the option? Just shove it right there...

Does that make sense?

Editing

shove makes AJ fold and only gets called by hands that beat you (AK and pp's) ship=bad. flatting is alright I guess bc were in position. if hes a limpy player we might just fold and wait for a better spot to iso and take his chips slowly with no 50/50 pf risk..ya meaaaan?

Certainly if we get it in vs utg a 3bet is the same as a shove, we are never folding aq on any flop

my question is that if we 3bet to like 650, do you think we can fold if one of the blinds iso shoves and utg calls? That would be a possible benefit of 3betting here. But then again we are in a bad spot if one of them cold calls, might wanna maximize fe to keep it isolated

I'm shoving but I'm not really happy. When a passive random suddenly opens utg+1 to 4x I think he is almost never doing it light, his range is almost or literally only hands he is fine getting it in with; I expect to see somthing like aj+ tt+ kq. Still a range we are beating, but not massively

insanepoker, I doubt he is folding aj here

i think calling is the worst option out of any shoving>3b/call>folding>calling

Calling is far worse than folding it. If you think it's marginal to shove here, then muck it. Also, how do you figure he is folding AJ here?

Min-re-raise

No but seriously why not. We isolate him and you know he never folds, which is great, and he 4-bet shoves wider than he calls a shove. Taking the initiative will also let us take it away on the flop easier or take a free card.

shove is fine

no no no. makes 100% sense. thats why in this situation i dont like shoving so i wouldnt 3bet either. just smoothy. if i shove and he calls im prolly beat. id rather not race with someone worse than me, that brings them on even grounds in terms of chances of winning when i think im a better player with a better chance to win in the long run. and if its a race, i can just see a flop by calling and then take the pot. and like i said, ill prolly bet any time he checks to me on the flop.

if the M's were lower then i would say shove bc what am i waiting for? idont wanna be blinded out. but with an M of 19... (30 BB's!) i dont want to start getting it all in here with AQo

+1

M of 19 is not all that great this deep. Around 15bbs I will start open shoving... 25bbs effective is certainly enough to resteal

what makes you think we're always beat if called? You say this but you don't give a range for his original raise or a range for him to call our shove. If you were him, what would you do with jj? What about ajs? Raise/fold?

If it is a race and he has a hand like jj then we miss out on value when and a or q flops. Especially if an a flops I expect him to fold hands like tt-qq, maybe even kk

if we smooth and he has something like ak and an a flops, or aa and a q flops, we are getting it all in anyways, and the rest of the time we are facing a tough decision with no pair

if the flop is all unders and he bets out, are we folding? Do you realize we may fold better hands if he has some holding like aj and bets out?

If it's a race then you would probably want to shove because at least you'll get to see 5 cards, I would think that's the point combined with the possibility he might fold. If you flat, you probably won't hit. If you hit and he c/bets, how sure can you be that you're actually good?