I hate this spot here but I can't just shove because bb stack is too big. I know that sb will resteal pretty light here and I hate raise calling but I think it is better than raise folding and open folding seems a bit too weak.

Against a competent player in the sb and having an aggro image in my spot is raise calling the lesser of all evils here?


Stage #414412943 Tourney ID 5811175 Holdem Multi Normal Tournament No Limit 800 - 2010-10-27 22:07:12 (ET)
Table: 20 (Real Money) Seat #9 is the dealer
Seat 2 - SCHILDY1984 (13,111 in chips)
Seat 3 - YABOYSTU (36,825 in chips)
Seat 4 - Z06FANATIC (21,644 in chips)
Seat 5 - DUURRRR (16,143 in chips)
Seat 6 - LPAPER (13,852 in chips)
Seat 7 - ATHE (35,690 in chips)
Seat 8 - STUMAN123 (18,728 in chips)
Seat 9 - HAMMER_U (27,117 in chips)
SCHILDY1984 - Ante 100
YABOYSTU - Ante 100
Z06FANATIC - Ante 100
DUURRRR - Ante 100
LPAPER - Ante 100
ATHE - Ante 100
STUMAN123 - Ante 100
HAMMER_U - Ante 100
SCHILDY1984 - Posts small blind 400
YABOYSTU - Posts big blind 800
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to HAMMER_U [4s 4c]
Z06FANATIC - Folds
DUURRRR - Folds
LPAPER - Folds
ATHE - Folds
STUMAN123 - Folds
HAMMER_U - Raises 1,875 to 1,875
SCHILDY1984 - All-In(Raise) 12,611 to 13,011
YABOYSTU - Folds
HAMMER_U -

With that read seems really standard to just r/c the sb. If he folds and bb raises I guess you just decide based on sizing etc

yeah std raise call here-not foldin pairs to 16bbs stacks -unless we know they are super tight restealers

I think I like open folding here given how awkward the stacks are

Does anyone else like this??? I def like it more than raise folding to the SB but I am not sure I can pass raising 44 on the button?

may not be a popular choice and the answer will inevitably be pokerstove but I expect that he shoves a huge % of the time to a button open so have the decision calculated and made prior to opening

What about 3xing it and letting sb know that I am not folding to his ship? I am not really a fan of changing raise sizes but I really don't want to flip here with two random overs?

if that is the case than it seems a shove or fold spot

I think switching to 3X looks weaker and will probably get jammed on just as often

no i am with you. I seriously considered this. What do you think about my idea of 3-3.5xing? I never really alter the size of my opens but this might be a good spot for it. I would do it so rarely that others would take a while to figure it out.

see above...ninja edited

From his stack do you really think that? I think it should freeze him up the first time or two I do it. I know that when I am playing and someone does something unstandard with their opens I usually need a little time to adjust to it.

Also I can't shove because of the BB. If they were both under 20 I am absolutely shoving.

just think it through for a sec...you said SB is competent...he intends to shove wide if you open...

if you expect him to shove wide you should open small/standard to induce. if you open larger it looks like you don't want him to shove...

it's similar to when we shove weak value hands BVB with awkward stacks when it is obvious we would raise call our strong hands. an adjustment here screams I have a hand that I don't want you to reshove onto

Maybe but it also screams "I am calling anyway even though I am not in love with my hand" He make the read that I am weak but not elect to reshove because he see's his FE decreasing.

If my plan is to call the sb's reshove anyway I think I need to try my best to induce him to fold.

In this particular hand he insta shoved J9x. I have a feeling that before the hand played he said to himself "If the button raises I am reshoving" Now if I 3xed I think this would have frozen him and he might have talked himself into a fold.

Would love to hear your opinion and others opinions of this

thoughts???

Nope, make your standard open and call a shove from SB.

why???

nope?? why...reasons are always good

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 47.680% 47.13% 00.55% 1796358708 21004842.00 { 44 }
Hand 1: 52.320% 51.77% 00.55% 1973220312 21004842.00 { 22+, A2s+, K7s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T8s+, 98s, 87s, A7o+, K9o+, Q9o+, J9o+ }

Raising will show a profit even if he jams the above range which is wide (and it seems like he'll jam this wide - 28.5% of hands, perhaps even wider if he snap jammed J9o) and it's an easy call once he shoves.

Also you should be r/f in this spot as well so r/c stuff like 44 is pretty necessary

I heard someone mention today there are nits on the two plus two

easy r/c vs sb
r/shove over BB 3bet or fold if he jams.

the fact that both these are attributed to me on the same day makes me happy

lol @ open folding

If you really think 3xing or whatever drastically tightens his reshove range then that will clearly be better, tbh I doubt it though

Your ignoring the BB and the possibility he calls leads flop when we fold a lot or check jams where we also fold a lot

just how wide do you think you can open here profitably?

lol at your lol...obviously we are racing a ton...the chances he has 22/33 or A2 or A3 are tiny and while I don't mind races I hate making them inevitable...I would rather search out spots with FE than choose to value race.

vs SCs we are not even that big a favorite. Also better pairs are always jamming...I think I would rather just open ship and hope the BB does not wake up with a monster than r/c in this spot with these stacks...

though I seem in the minority so carry on

Ty for response and I agree that raise calling is better than raise folding to the sb here. If the bb 3bets I will obv have a dec of whether to Jam or fold.

My question was in regards to making a bigger than normal open though (something I never do) But why not make a 3x raise here or something to that extent to try to discourage the sb from restealing and having to take a huge flip. Obv if he shoves I am calling anyway but I think a bigger than normal open out of the blue will freeze him a bit and might tighten up his reshipping range.

Obv this is not standard at all but I would like hear some opinions on a bigger than normal open here

thoughts???

this is the most interesting argument I have seen...if we raise do we call 22? why can't we have a r/f range with ATC and baby pairs?

ssnyc:

must avoid showdown
must avoid showdown
must avoid showdown

ur points actually make sense to me but Im not r/f a pair bvb this shallow.