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AK, tp oop vs barrels 9max AK, tp oop vs barrels 9max

02-14-2011 , 03:41 PM
Poker Stars No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t15.00/t30.00 Blinds - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter By DeucesCracked Poker Videos

UTG+1: t1465.00 48.83 BBs
MP1: t1735.00 57.83 BBs
MP2: t1108.00 36.93 BBs
CO: t3809.00 126.97 BBs
BTN: t1338.00 44.60 BBs
SB: t1025.00 34.17 BBs
Hero (BB): t1550.00 51.67 BBs
UTG: t1470.00 49 BBs

Pre Flop: (t45) Hero is BB with K A
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to t120, 5 folds, Hero calls t90

Flop: (t255) T K 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets t120.00, Hero calls t120

Turn: (t495) 7 (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets t240.00, Hero calls t240

River: (t975) 5 (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets t600.00, Hero calls t600

I have villain at 12/10/5ag over 1.4k hands. I think he's a winning player, but haven't looked him up. His ep open is 10%, cbets 70%, cbet turn 33%. I doubt he barrels AQ/AJ, and might not bluff rivers with missed flush draws and i doubt he barrels 3 with QQ/JJ or much else actually. River seems like an easy fold now, should I fold earlier?
AK, tp oop vs barrels 9max Quote
02-14-2011 , 04:23 PM
Bet the flop ~1/2 pot, it's unlikely that villain didn't get a piece of it and you might induce a reraise from a draw (also, you're going to lose a substantial portion of you stack if he hit a set any way you play it). C/r is probably okay here too, but I disagree with c/c.

As played, bet the turn ~1/2 pot to make him pay for his draw, if indeed he is holding AQ of spades/QQ/JJ (it seems unlikely that AJ is in his range here imo).

Again as played, lead with a ~1/3 pot blocking bet on the river and fold to the reraise b/c his range should consist of three or four hands only, none of which you beat.
AK, tp oop vs barrels 9max Quote
02-14-2011 , 08:54 PM
If villain has a high cbet percentage, I'm c/raising pretty big (pot sized) and try to get it in on turn or at least put in a committing bet.

If you're not willing to get it in on a flop/turn like that, you shouldn't be calling preflop in the first place, imo.

Edit: missed the cbet stat in the OP, I'd c/r flop...
AK, tp oop vs barrels 9max Quote
02-15-2011 , 02:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndahlhoff10
Poker Stars No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t15.00/t30.00 Blinds - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter By DeucesCracked Poker Videos

UTG+1: t1465.00 48.83 BBs
MP1: t1735.00 57.83 BBs
MP2: t1108.00 36.93 BBs
CO: t3809.00 126.97 BBs
BTN: t1338.00 44.60 BBs
SB: t1025.00 34.17 BBs
Hero (BB): t1550.00 51.67 BBs
UTG: t1470.00 49 BBs

Pre Flop: (t45) Hero is BB with K A
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to t120, 5 folds, Hero calls t90

Flop: (t255) T K 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets t120.00, Hero calls t120
3bet PF to 3-400 and the hand plays itself, how you played it, in my opinion, is ridiculous
AK, tp oop vs barrels 9max Quote
02-15-2011 , 03:35 AM
I would have check-raised on the flop and got it in on the turn
AK, tp oop vs barrels 9max Quote
02-15-2011 , 06:09 AM
Fold pre
AK, tp oop vs barrels 9max Quote
02-15-2011 , 06:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrash370
Fold pre
Why would you fold AKo pre? AK is a nice hand to pick up PF - but sux on missed flops, imo?
AK, tp oop vs barrels 9max Quote
02-15-2011 , 06:24 AM
Against an UTG Raise from a very tight player i fold this pre. You dont have an edge over his openraising Range. On the Flop you are way ahead/way behind against his Range, because he has almost no draws in his Range. The River is a fold for me, because he wont Barrel worse Hands. At best you have a Split against AK.
AK, tp oop vs barrels 9max Quote
02-15-2011 , 06:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by h0ps-
Why would you fold AKo pre? AK is a nice hand to pick up PF - but sux on missed flops, imo?
The problem with AK vs other nit regulars that open from early position is how poorly it plays post flop. For starters you need to flop an A or K to continue in the hand and even then no good reg is losing a substantial pot vs another tight reg on a AT6 board or K94 board etc. You have to flop such a setup situation like QJT vs QQ to get any kind of sizable pot. If the pot grows sizable with you having just a naked ace or king vs another reg odds are you're behind. Just one of those spots you either win a small pot or lose a large one.
AK, tp oop vs barrels 9max Quote
02-15-2011 , 06:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrash370
The problem with AK vs other nit regulars that open from early position is how poorly it plays post flop. For starters you need to flop an A or K to continue in the hand and even then no good reg is losing a substantial pot vs another tight reg on a AT6 board or K94 board etc. You have to flop such a setup situation like QJT vs QQ to get any kind of sizable pot. If the pot grows sizable with you having just a naked ace or king vs another reg odds are you're behind. Just one of those spots you either win a small pot or lose a large one.
That might be true but I still think it is too tight to lay down AKo preflop if only one opponents. I think the only problem with this hand and how it was played is that 1) either reraise PF to see where you are or 2) (and I think I prefer this one) reraise the flop.

But AK is of course a dangerous hand and one have to watch out and not falling in love with hand. That is why you can't just call down every street with it or play further when you miss the flop.

But I can be wrong, I am not that experienced.
AK, tp oop vs barrels 9max Quote
02-15-2011 , 06:43 AM
His turn bet looks weak. Normally, I fold to turn barrels, especially when the guy only has a 33% turn barrel frequency but when he makes it so small, I'm so tempted to jam.

First instinct was to fold the river but now, I think I'd call. However, I'd probably have jammed the turn, so I'd not be in this spot very often.
AK, tp oop vs barrels 9max Quote
02-15-2011 , 07:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdog
3bet PF to 3-400 and the hand plays itself, how you played it, in my opinion, is ridiculous
Like this you pay off villain's monsters and make him fold probably the only hand you crush, which is AQ...
AK, tp oop vs barrels 9max Quote
02-15-2011 , 07:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by h0ps-
That might be true but I still think it is too tight to lay down AKo preflop if only one opponents. I think the only problem with this hand and how it was played is that 1) either reraise PF to see where you are or 2) (and I think I prefer this one) reraise the flop.

But AK is of course a dangerous hand and one have to watch out and not falling in love with hand. That is why you can't just call down every street with it or play further when you miss the flop.

But I can be wrong, I am not that experienced.
I'm familiar with the games ndahlhoff plays which are $55-109s, against any competent player it doesn't matter if it's only one opponent when the range is so polarized from early position and you're never getting paid when you get there. I would never fold this in a micro buyin but this isn't the situation and flatting here is one of the biggest spews I see out of regulars.

To 1) Reraising preflop either gets you committed pre flop to a monster and like another poster says folds out the only hand in the range you crush (AQ)

To point 2) If he check raises the flop again he is committing himself to a nit here that is getting in AK+ flush draws with a gut shot. Against this range you're picking up so few chips to be risking your entire stack vs a ridiculous range that easily could be all over this flop that it just isn't worth it.

In fact the best line is to sad face down your hand (check call down) when you do play AK like this OOP vs a regular except for this is a draw heavy board so you're in an awkward spot. The only way we get value out of this hand is by making him try to protect a hand like KQ/Bet a flush draw/double barrel JJ/QQ. Problem with this is once he hammers off the river we can eliminate hands like KQ/KJ as any sane reg would err on the side of sustaining a decent size stack over getting a thin value bet.
AK, tp oop vs barrels 9max Quote
02-15-2011 , 07:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndahlhoff10
Poker Stars No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t15.00/t30.00 Blinds - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter By DeucesCracked Poker Videos

UTG+1: t1465.00 48.83 BBs
MP1: t1735.00 57.83 BBs
MP2: t1108.00 36.93 BBs
CO: t3809.00 126.97 BBs
BTN: t1338.00 44.60 BBs
SB: t1025.00 34.17 BBs
Hero (BB): t1550.00 51.67 BBs
UTG: t1470.00 49 BBs

Pre Flop: (t45) Hero is BB with K A
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to t120, 5 folds, Hero calls t90

Flop: (t255) T K 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets t120.00, Hero calls t120

Turn: (t495) 7 (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets t240.00, Hero calls t240

River: (t975) 5 (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets t600.00, Hero calls t600

I have villain at 12/10/5ag over 1.4k hands. I think he's a winning player, but haven't looked him up. His ep open is 10%, cbets 70%, cbet turn 33%. I doubt he barrels AQ/AJ, and might not bluff rivers with missed flush draws and i doubt he barrels 3 with QQ/JJ or much else actually. River seems like an easy fold now, should I fold earlier?

Even when you check his EP open, I wouldn't put him wider than AJ+ 88+ or something like that.

So you're crushed here IMO. His turn bet is odd, but I agree that JJ and QQ most likely won't 3barrell, you're splitting with AK, and AA KK TT 99 obviously own you hard on this board where he doesn't have that many A highs in his opening range.
His bet sizing I don't like all that much. Maybe he has 99 and is worried about TT or made straights, but that doesn't make a lot of sense.
AK, tp oop vs barrels 9max Quote
02-15-2011 , 07:38 AM
btw as played check call flop, check call turn, fold river
AK, tp oop vs barrels 9max Quote
02-15-2011 , 07:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrash370
btw as played check call flop, check call turn, fold river
That's prbably some high-stakes-thinking I don't understand but why are you playing the flop so passively?
AK, tp oop vs barrels 9max Quote
02-15-2011 , 07:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by warriorsquest
That's prbably some high-stakes-thinking I don't understand but why are you playing the flop so passively?
I explained that towards the bottom of post #13 if you need me to expand further on a certain point in there I'll be happy to do so but at this point I'd just copy paste what I already wrote
AK, tp oop vs barrels 9max Quote
02-15-2011 , 08:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrash370
I'm familiar with the games ndahlhoff plays which are $55-109s, against any competent player it doesn't matter if it's only one opponent when the range is so polarized from early position and you're never getting paid when you get there. I would never fold this in a micro buyin but this isn't the situation and flatting here is one of the biggest spews I see out of regulars.

To 1) Reraising preflop either gets you committed pre flop to a monster and like another poster says folds out the only hand in the range you crush (AQ)

To point 2) If he check raises the flop again he is committing himself to a nit here that is getting in AK+ flush draws with a gut shot. Against this range you're picking up so few chips to be risking your entire stack vs a ridiculous range that easily could be all over this flop that it just isn't worth it.

In fact the best line is to sad face down your hand (check call down) when you do play AK like this OOP vs a regular except for this is a draw heavy board so you're in an awkward spot. The only way we get value out of this hand is by making him try to protect a hand like KQ/Bet a flush draw/double barrel JJ/QQ. Problem with this is once he hammers off the river we can eliminate hands like KQ/KJ as any sane reg would err on the side of sustaining a decent size stack over getting a thin value bet.
I have learned a lot from your post. But I still think this calling the pot down is wrong. It ended up costing him 2/3 of his stack to begin with. I think I would still call but make a shot at it on the flop to see where I am at. Seems like that could be a cheaper way to handle this situation, if you call PF. Of what do you think?
AK, tp oop vs barrels 9max Quote
02-15-2011 , 09:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdog
3bet PF to 3-400 and the hand plays itself, how you played it, in my opinion, is ridiculous
This is terrible advice. 3 betting versus a 12/10 or any decent SNG player is terrible. Flat is standard by far.

OP he 4xes so I think his hand is like TT-JJ/AK type hands. I'd probably fold river because nobody in SNGS ever triple barrels air here imo without dynamics.
AK, tp oop vs barrels 9max Quote
02-15-2011 , 10:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by h0ps-
I have learned a lot from your post. But I still think this calling the pot down is wrong. It ended up costing him 2/3 of his stack to begin with. I think I would still call but make a shot at it on the flop to see where I am at. Seems like that could be a cheaper way to handle this situation, if you call PF. Of what do you think?
That's the thing it shouldn't have cost him 2/3 his stack as he should've been able to easily fold river.

The cheaper way to handle everything gets back to my main point, fold pre but as played either you check raise to $400 or you check called down $360 (which if he bet sized corretly would've been $400) so that's indifferent except one way leaves open the possibility of getting value without committing your stack on flop
AK, tp oop vs barrels 9max Quote
02-15-2011 , 10:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjyykk
This is terrible advice. 3 betting versus a 12/10 or any decent SNG player is terrible. Flat is standard by far.

OP he 4xes so I think his hand is like TT-JJ/AK type hands. I'd probably fold river because nobody in SNGS ever triple barrels air here imo without dynamics.
fwiw I 4x AA/KK all day so I wouldn't say that narrows his range in into the more marginal monsters
AK, tp oop vs barrels 9max Quote
02-15-2011 , 10:55 AM
pretty much agree w/everything thrash said. I don't hate the fold pre idea, are you folding TT too? I'd like a turn fold if he bet something less blocker-ish and a little bigger. River is terrible for sure
AK, tp oop vs barrels 9max Quote
02-15-2011 , 11:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndahlhoff10
pretty much agree w/everything thrash said. I don't hate the fold pre idea, are you folding TT too? I'd like a turn fold if he bet something less blocker-ish and a little bigger. River is terrible for sure
No difference between TT and AK is TT has a potential to win both a small pot and large pot while AK pretty much is just limited to a small pot.
AK, tp oop vs barrels 9max Quote
02-15-2011 , 11:12 AM
Hi,

Please put the buy-in in your thread titles.

Thanks
AK, tp oop vs barrels 9max Quote
02-15-2011 , 11:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrash370
fwiw I 4x AA/KK all day so I wouldn't say that narrows his range in into the more marginal monsters
I do the same, i 4x everything except when I misclick.

I randomize a lot of my other typical plays. Sometimes I valuebet bigger on the flop, sometimes i cbet with air bigger on the flop, depending on the opponent. And then sometimes I randomize the sizing vs regs who want to outthink you in the "bigger bets for value smaller as a bluff" game, it's all quite balanced so it's not possible to read that way.

But EP raise is 4x for me during 15 30 regardless whether it's AK, TT or AA I'm doing it with.
AK, tp oop vs barrels 9max Quote

      
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