Michty, if your backer is new and a friend, some kind of stop-loss/amount he communicates he can handle losing seems like a great thing to agree upon off the bat.

I think its fine if its a experienced poker player fwiw this guy clearly doesnt know which way is up...

Also if u can help it dont play backed its the pits!

Gramps #175-76
That is true and I have felt the same way about staking too. I guess why the deal makes sense for me just now is twofold: (1) I don’t have access to much cash or credit (2) If it works out he is willing to stake me much higher amounts, meaning I could play SNGs/MTTs that it would either take me a while to build up the roll for or that I wouldn’t play because I’d be too scared of the variance/losing

Also something I have been thinking about is that I believe that the rate should also depend on the stakes, amount of money he is investing and risk of ruin. Like if he is investing $3k I would probably want 70/30 in my favour due to the limitation of stakes that allows me to play and the low risk of ruin at lower stakes; if he was investing like $10k+ then I’d be more inclined to move to 60/40 or 50/50 due to the higher variance and higher ROR he is assuming. And if we were doing MTTs only I would definitely weigh the deal to his end – but since we are not doing this I don’t see why this shouldn’t be weighted to me.

In addition to agreeing a set level of buy-ins for both SNGs and MTTs for each staking amount, I’m thinking something like his investment and the ratio would be something like:
- $3k = 70/30 my favour
- $6k = 65/35
- $10k = 60/40
- $15k = 50/50
- MTTs only = 70/30 in his favour

PS. Screw you auto-correct favour is spelled FAVOUR!

what's the value in playing higher stakes if you have to give away a bunch of profits to do so? Seems like the most EV in terms of hourly is to build a roll as quickly as possible that can make you the same hourly that the stake is providing. Then move up on your own roll.

this is correct.

Yeah, employees definitely freeroll employers. I've had to pay for people who lost me money. I should start charging make-up. They work for free until they've made up for whatever went wrong.

I think freeroll is kind of a misnomer given that the player's time and skill isnt worth 0. I always find it a little ridiculous when the backer acts like hes doing the horse a favor putting him in a tourney with lower markup than his expected winrate is.

How about no make-up but every month (or X games) the starting point is reset? For example, you start with $2k and play 1,000 games (or 1 month). If you have $2.5k great - you split the profit according to the terms of the deal. If you have say $1.8k that becomes the new starting point for the next batch of games. That gives the player the incentive to keep going and not quit while in make-up; the backer can also choose to end the agreement at the end of each block. Also, you could put in a stop-loss too.

This is pretty much what sauce123, who buffy mentioned earlier, is doing to stake cash players (his 'blocks' are 50k hands)...

Now that makeup has been clarified, I'm not necessarily against it.

But, it's all negotiable and the % split will be affected by who is taking how much risk. If you lose one month, reset the starting point to a lower level, win something back, but not enough to get even and then still get paid - the staker would want a bigger split in general.

I think the "standard rates" for staking have a lot of shenanigans priced in. If you have a good relationship and are trusted and staker is sophisticated, I think giving him a fair ROI for the level of risk is where you start and end. It's not he's shopping for horses in general, right? I assume he wouldn't trust a random enough to do a deal at all.

No, no it is not. It is not correct except for maybe in Devin Lakeland. Yeesh.

i don't think so

Ya true. I think the monthly review thing is a good idea is it is basically seeing how his investment is coming along month by month...

He has no interest in staking poker and was clueless to the idea that such a thing might exist until I chatted to him randomly one night! So yeh its definitely not like there will be other offers available to him...

Michty, I'm sure you know this but your winrate at low and midstakes mtt's won't be nearly the same as high stakes mtts if it ends up going that route. Maybe buffy can comment more on that but it's something to keep in mind and probably something you should explain to your backer.

I can think of some others who you could "rep" (for a fee of course). Business card could read: Michty - Staking Agent. Making money into wealth.

Then again, I'm currently not allowed to play the onlines poker. Pfffft.

Yeh definitely - in particular as the variance is higher (lower ROIs) the risk of losing some (or all) of the initial investment increases. This was where my idea in varying his return in [178] proportionate to the stakes being played came from...

Haha sure I'd be interested. My friend knows a lot more people with large chunks of money looking for +EV investments. When I explained to him the ROIs possible in poker (not 'poker ROI' per game in the way we think of it but 'investment ROI' - looking at how much money was put in and how much they get out at the end of a year - which is pretty much only limited by the volume the player wants to put in) he couldn't actually believe it is true and I think he is still a little skeptical.

But if this works out, this will be my road to the WSOP ME

going to be hiring again pretty soon. Not all jobs are installation.

Devin's comment about "favour being favour" is amazing.

have you guys ever seen the funny autocorrect websites? amaaaaaaaazing

Micro look me up if you or anyone else out there is in need of a mechanical engineer with a degree from a top tier university.

I don't always install solar, but when I do, I have a whole crew to do it for me.

Get wealthy my friends.

One of the coolest youtube videos I've ever seen I think: A tour on the International Space Station.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doN4t5NKW-k

Worth to watch if you are human .

occasionally plans need to be stamped by an engineer but you need to have a license in California.

do you need someone to sit around the office and make sarcastic remarks about things?

Let me know if you need help with your sarcasm resume.

Oh yeah, that would really helpful.