Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
66 set/dry board - how are you building a pot here? 66 set/dry board - how are you building a pot here?

10-20-2013 , 08:26 AM
Thanks in advance for your constructive feedback.

Live MTT, $100 buy-in. Full table. About 90 minutes in.
Hero = ~10,000. Image is probably tight, but probably also irrelevant, as the hand sample size is relatively small.
V1 = ~30,000. ~30 y/o I think he's Brazilian. He and I are talking a decent amount. But (without boring you with hand details) he is definitely a competent, thinking TAG. Has won some nice all-ins vs a few donks.
V2 = ~12,000. In his 20s, White, huge headphones. Less talkative, but still seems a nice guy. Also a competent, thinking TAG. His raise and postflop bet patterns are almost identical to an online player's.

Blinds 75/150. UTG (V2) limps. All fold to me in the SB with 66. I call. BB (V1) checks.

Flop: 5 6 K
I'm up against thinking opponents. If I bet here, I don't feel that I can expect a call often, and an discontent winning such a small pot. Your thoughts?
I check. So do the V's.

Turn: Q
If they didn't bet the flop, I believe that the Q hit either of their ranges somehow. But I think checking to induce a bet has a better chance of building a pot than betting outright. Your thoughts?
I check. V1 bets 350. V2 calls. I check-raise to 850. V1 insta-calls. V2 folds. V1 says out loud to dealer: "gimme that one card that I need" Almost sounds like he's playing craps or something.

River: A
V2 immediately goes (paraphrased): "Wow. That's exactly the card I needed. I'm gonna bet so much you have no idea. Just be careful. I'm gonna confuse you." His talking is almost endless.
What's your line here? B/F, C/C or C/F? If you take a bet line and he raises, how afraid are you of JT? If you take check line, how large a bet would it need to be to consider a fold? Is anyone never folding here?
66 set/dry board - how are you building a pot here? Quote
10-20-2013 , 08:37 AM
Bet huge/cry/probably fold

We have the effective seconds nuts (villain doesn't have QQ/KK/AA), but honestly JT is in our range as well so I really don't expect to get rando bluffed here, and there's not many pure air hands that villain gets to this river with.

Also, if you're playing a $100 live tournament with 2 competent players at your table (how accurate your assessment is is prob debatable), you run bad.
66 set/dry board - how are you building a pot here? Quote
10-20-2013 , 08:43 AM
Check/call; sounds like he is gonna bet at you, if he bets tiny I'm going to raise, if he bets 3/4 - huge I'm going to call

Sent from my GT-I9100 using 2+2 Forums
66 set/dry board - how are you building a pot here? Quote
10-20-2013 , 09:07 AM
Also I like c/r flop and c/r turn, but you can go bigger ott like 1250
66 set/dry board - how are you building a pot here? Quote
10-20-2013 , 09:22 AM
Check/reevaluate the river. Probably fold to an overbet given his talk.
66 set/dry board - how are you building a pot here? Quote
10-20-2013 , 10:58 AM
Easy c/c. No reason to bet here really.

As for sizing, anything less than pot I call. I see players talk like this and go something redic like 1.5x pot here sometimes, at which point I prolly just fold and stop thinking he is a good and thinking player.
66 set/dry board - how are you building a pot here? Quote
10-20-2013 , 01:30 PM
How is there no reason to bet here lol

What bluffs is he betting here? The only non showdown hand ott was JT that got there otr

He might check behind his random 2 pair hands because we can have JT a lot. If we check I think we lose value from a lot of the stuff we beat.
66 set/dry board - how are you building a pot here? Quote
10-20-2013 , 01:58 PM
bet/fold river
lead flop....lead turn
66 set/dry board - how are you building a pot here? Quote
10-20-2013 , 06:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbulenc3
How is there no reason to bet here lol

What bluffs is he betting here?
Yeah, I'm guessing you don't play a ton live. His talk means he has his whole range as a bluff.

We have massive showdown value and turning our hand into a bluff by b/fing so he can donk rr his 2pair is gross.

If we check, he is firing 100% of the time so as long as it's not some redic overbet, we are deep enough to just call and hope he doesn't have the one hand that crushes us.
66 set/dry board - how are you building a pot here? Quote
10-20-2013 , 06:37 PM
your logic in every thread is just ridiculous. i think you posting here is actually good for poker though, so no real complaints
66 set/dry board - how are you building a pot here? Quote
10-20-2013 , 06:38 PM
Basically what Turb said, c/r bigger ott and bet/fold big otr.
66 set/dry board - how are you building a pot here? Quote
10-20-2013 , 06:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbulenc3
your logic in every thread is just rediculous
+1000
66 set/dry board - how are you building a pot here? Quote
10-20-2013 , 07:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shichibukai
bet/fold river
lead flop....lead turn
This would probably be my preferred line
66 set/dry board - how are you building a pot here? Quote
10-20-2013 , 07:15 PM
Ordinarily I would bet/reevaluate the river. Due to his table talk, I would check/reevaluate, but only consider folding if it was an overbet.
66 set/dry board - how are you building a pot here? Quote
10-21-2013 , 11:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by betgo
Ordinarily I would bet/reevaluate the river. Due to his table talk, I would check/reevaluate, but only consider folding if it was an overbet.
+1
66 set/dry board - how are you building a pot here? Quote
10-21-2013 , 11:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zanardi1
Basically what Turb said, c/r bigger ott and bet/fold big otr.
No. Chip dump is spew here.
66 set/dry board - how are you building a pot here? Quote
10-21-2013 , 11:45 AM
When you crush dry boards in a multiway limped pot, you're not getting a lot of money going in if you check unless they hit. If you lead, however, you get the added chips from when they float. The pots 3bb so no one cares. The villain limping is less likely to cbet bluff when checked to because it's such a small pot.

Say villain only bets when he has Kx, 55, 65, 77-99 but calls a bet with 74, 75, 87, Kx, 55, 65, 77-99 and Axs that matches board. The pot gets built a lot easier when you bet because his calling range is wider than his betting range.

If this were an opened pot, c/r to build the pot would be good, or c/c, because the pot's bigger and makes it more likely it'll get bigger (since it's easier for a midsized pot to become a big pot than for a small pot to become a big pot). Villain cbets with more hands to take the pot now when he opens instead of limps.

Lead flop. Lead turn. Bet/fold river unless he gives that speech and then c/c all but more than pot overbets
66 set/dry board - how are you building a pot here? Quote
10-21-2013 , 11:59 AM
Don't mind checking flop, lead turn and I would bet big small / c on riv because I would think he isn't going to be saying all that with j10 but what do I know I'm not even old enough to play live so my opinion could be irrelevant. I feel like he's doing the talking with something with showdown value and trying to induce a check or trying to bluff u on riv if either of the gin cards hit.
66 set/dry board - how are you building a pot here? Quote
10-21-2013 , 12:22 PM
bet turn
bet river big
66 set/dry board - how are you building a pot here? Quote
10-21-2013 , 12:27 PM
Typically, when a live player gets talkative, he has a big hand. I would be concerned when he says he will bet so big you can't call, particularly after he said he needed one card. So check / reevaluate or bet small / reevaluate are best IMO.
66 set/dry board - how are you building a pot here? Quote
10-21-2013 , 12:45 PM
All good points Betgo -

Betting small isn't getting a fold and only making his repop that much bigger and harder to call.

Betting large is just spewing chips when he shoves.

Checking here gives you the best opportunity to get to show down with what is likely the best hand.
66 set/dry board - how are you building a pot here? Quote
10-21-2013 , 03:28 PM
Betting small on river isn't done with the intention of getting a fold.
66 set/dry board - how are you building a pot here? Quote
10-21-2013 , 03:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yo'Maha
All good points Betgo -

Betting small isn't getting a fold and only making his repop that much bigger and harder to call.
wtf

we want a call. we have the second nuts
Quote:
Betting large is just spewing chips when he shoves.
Why do you assume he is shoving so much??? When we bet huge we can clearly have JT, we're only getting shoved on by JT. "when he talks his whole range is bluffing" is probably the dumbest thing I've read in a while

Quote:
Checking here gives you the best opportunity to get to show down with what is likely the best hand.
We have the effective second nuts! why would we want to check and show down?????
66 set/dry board - how are you building a pot here? Quote
10-21-2013 , 04:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbulenc3
wtf

we want a call. we have the second nuts


Why do you assume he is shoving so much??? When we bet huge we can clearly have JT, we're only getting shoved on by JT. "when he talks his whole range is bluffing" is probably the dumbest thing I've read in a while



We have the effective second nuts! why would we want to check and show down?????
We have 5th nuts, but effective 2nd nuts. I would slow down because of his talk. Would never slow down otherwise.
66 set/dry board - how are you building a pot here? Quote
10-21-2013 , 04:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbulenc3
wtf

we want a call. we have the second nuts


Why do you assume he is shoving so much??? When we bet huge we can clearly have JT, we're only getting shoved on by JT. "when he talks his whole range is bluffing" is probably the dumbest thing I've read in a while



We have the effective second nuts! why would we want to check and show down?????
Wow. Reading this makes it painfully obvious that you have exactly zero live poker experience. You have no clue where you're at in this hand and it's kinda funny to watch. Live tells are important and someday you'll learn that they shouldn't be completely ignored.

How old are you anyway? I'm guessing 21?
66 set/dry board - how are you building a pot here? Quote

      
m