Merge - $0+$0|<> NL (6 max) - Holdem - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 306 (VPIP: 58.25, PFR: 9.18, 3Bet Preflop: 2.38, Hands: 110)
BB: 4,537 (VPIP: 44.44, PFR: 16.28, 3Bet Preflop: 14.29, Hands: 45)
Hero (CO): 2,523
BTN: 1,634 (VPIP: 36.63, PFR: 17.00, 3Bet Preflop: 6.06, Hands: 104)

SB posts SB 75, BB posts BB 150

Pre Flop: (pot: 225) Hero has J K

Hero raises to 300, BTN calls 300, SB raises to 306 and is all-in, fold, Hero calls 6, BTN calls 6

Flop: (1,068, 3 players) Q T 2
Hero bets 2,217 and is all-in, BTN calls 1,328 and is all-in

I was sort of lost otf, so I just jammed it. Would you have done the same?

idk why I didn't have a chance to re-jam pre, SB's jam limited my action to call or fold.

seems fine

Why do u jam flop?

Your answers to my threads are so opaque. What would you have done?

SB Villain is probably going all in with close to ATC, so I'm probably ahead of him otf, and I don't feel like I can c/f this flop to the other Villain at this spr.

Deeply sorry u didn't receive the answer you want to hear, keep on rocking.

You act as if I'm dismissing your input. I'm not -- there is no input to disagree with.

Well u need to give a bit more detailed info into your thought process if u really want to get sth. out of here. "Idk what to do so I just jam, what to do instead broskis?" isn't really going to do that.

Seriously though, asking yourself 'why' you made a certain bet/size can be extremely helpful. It sounds funny, but not enough players do that.

I'd have jammed flop, so I'll play.

While I don't think we're miles ahead of button's range here, I do think a shove folds out a high percentage of hands that beat us. Obviously he won't fold a set or even top pair, but low to medium PPs, Ace high, and perhaps hands as strong as Tx can fold. I think a lot of guys call because "they want to see it" and in this case he gets to see our hand because the shortstack is all-in.

The main argument I see for not shoving is that AT BEST we push the guy off his hand only to have to play a side pot. It'd be much better if there wasn't a shortstack so we'd have more equity in the pot (i.e. We'd win it all instead of having to let cards run out).

If this was a 9-max game, I'd vehemently defend a check. But it doesn't seem like a ICM heavy spot here in 6-max, but I could be wrong because I've played <10 6-max SNGs in my life.

Fair enough. I just thought the spot was pretty self-explanatory (as far as the reasoning for jamming). There's a good chance I'm behind BTN V's range pre bc he's flatting on such a short stack (although vpip over 104 hands is pretty absurd). otf, I'm probably still behind although I have good equity. I also don't think I have much FE, but who knows -- someone who flats pre on this stack size obviously isn't playing according to generally accepted poker "principles".

I think it's pretty obvious that c/c is the worst option here. So the question is can we ever find a c/f? How much does SB being in the pot matter? Like if we jam there's some chance BTN folds and SB has us beat so we effectively are putting money into the pot uselessly and tripling SB up when BTN could have knocked him out.

Just a weird spot where I didn't know how to weigh all these factors and figure out how the low spr affects the situation. Also turbo sng so you only have like 10 secs. to make a decision.

Thx for feedback.

for sure, I just thought it was sort of self-explanatory why I made the move bc we have an oesd and basically spr of 1. Just bc the reasoning behind the move is straightforward to me doesn't make it correct, though.

I agree.

I don't think shoving here makes the most sense.

Realistically you will need to improve to win the hand, which you have a great chance of doing.

Since one player is all in already I would argue the chances of villain betting worse than a 10 here are close enough to 0%. If they have exactly a ten, then they may bet but it still is not overly likely since players usually check it down with those types of hands. If he has a Q then there is a very decent chance they will bet it, but even this strong players are sometimes reluctant to bet. To sum up here, a huge amount of the time you get a free card with a hand that you will likely need to improve with to win anything.

Now lets look at the hands he folds.

A queen? Doubtful. A ten? Probably would fold here, but you have oodles of outs against a ten anyway, and even if you fold out a ten here there is still a high probability that you will need to improve anyway to in the hand. Any hand worse than a ten? Villain definitely folds,but again your in the same spot where you will likely need to improve to win.

So overall when you bet and get villain you don't gain a huge amount. Checking gives you a great chance at at least one, and probably two cards which gives you the chance of only putting in more chips if you hit. In order to gain from betting villain out here you need to a) Get villain to fold a better hand than you AND b) Beat shortstacks hand and both of these events do not happen often enough IMO to make a bet worthwhile since most hands you beat shortstack will need to have improved by the river.

lol I'm sorry, thought this was 9m and thus a pretty clear check.

Really!? I highly doubt that. I think V is jamming most of his range when checked to here. He's definitely jamming a T or a Q, and probably a lot of other junk too. You're thinking too logically for someone that's willing to flat for 1/5 of their stack pre.

The real disaster here is when we check and he jams A high - AJ/AK etc.

I'd play it the same.

On flop we want to generate fold equity, if we check, any bet from villain commits him (and I'm not disciplined enough to ever fold this flop). In general players tend to play waaay tighter than normal when there's a shortstack allin, so we also often have a lot more fold equity if we take lead, so I like jamming flop. King high is likely ahead of shortstacks range.

He isn't likey to fold either a Q or 10 so the fact he is jamming these hands doesn't make much difference. Granted if he shoves an A high hand the it's bad for us but you suggested he may be jamming other junk too. Given there is already an all in and you need to win this at showdown regardless, this isn't necessarily a disaster for us. (I do disagree with how often you think he is shoving into an empty side pot though with hands other than a Q and maybe a 10).

You need to beat a random hand at showdown anyway, in order to do this you will probably have to improve your K high. Most cards that improve you will put you in pole position vs the other villain also. To me trying to take the free card makes more sense.

Also, I am not checking to fold. I will still get it in here, I just don't see the benefit in semi bluffing out an additional player with a hand that has so much equity.

Yeah, I hear ya. That's why I posted the hand! I really don't know what the correct answer is...

Really? The options you're discussing are check and get it in versus btn when he's always in front, or openjam to get btn to fold some of the hands we are losing to and play versus shortstacks wide open range?

And if we check and are fortunate enough to see turns and rivers we still need to hit to win vs btn.

lead>c/f>c/c.

^so we're b/f? that seems pretty terribad with this much equity and eff. spr of close to 1.

Yes, b/f is worse than the other options. Hadn't considered it, but it's not really an option is it given stacksizes? i guess you're overthinking the situation because of shortstack allin, if we check call we are always behind btn range, if we lead jam we get him to fold a good chunk of the range we are losing to (ace highs, pp, some Tx). We are in front of shortstacks range. Having J9 in this spot is slightly more interesting.