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10-06-2010 , 02:41 AM

mavs

old hand

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,796

Villain is 77/23 over 13 hands. Cant fold, right?

Poker Stars $6.00+$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t15/t30 Blinds - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter By DeucesCracked Poker Videos

UTG: t1750 58.33 BBs
UTG+1: t1490 49.67 BBs
UTG+2: t2010 67 BBs
MP1: t1380 46 BBs
MP2: t1360 45.33 BBs
CO: t1240 41.33 BBs
BTN: t1470 49 BBs
SB: t1250 41.67 BBs
Hero (BB): t1550 51.67 BBs

Pre Flop: (t45) Hero is BB with 8

7 folds, SB calls t15, Hero raises to t120, SB calls t90

Flop: (t240) T

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets t180, SB raises to t1130 all in, Hero ???

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10-06-2010 , 06:06 AM

69spades

centurion

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 147

I know I'm tard, but I think I ista-fold this

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10-06-2010 , 06:12 AM

warriorsquest

adept

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,019

I'd check pre. A loostard like this won't ever fold here and you can still get enough value out of him if you hit the ace.
Flop action is ugly but I think a call is fine. Villain should have probably raised any better Ax pre (same for JJ, TT) and a flush or straight draw+weaker aces are def in his range for reshoving flop.

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10-06-2010 , 07:52 AM

alexd11

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,965

This is all way too fancy for me. I'd say you're boned on that cr and don't like calling off with TPMK even against this guy. When the ultra passives start Check shoving me, the alarm bells start ringing.

That said can't really fault your call that much if that's what you did.

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10-06-2010 , 09:18 AM

warriorsquest

adept

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,019

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexd11

When the ultra passives start Check shoving me, the alarm bells start ringing.

I wouldn't consider a pfr: 23% as ultra passive. stats like this after 13 hands just tell me that this player probably doesn't have grasp of what he's doing.
But yeah, there can be points made for calling and folding obv. I still tend towards a call.

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10-06-2010 , 09:22 AM

alexd11

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,965

77/23, He's just limp called a 4x. I'd stick money on him opening for a min raise aswell.

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10-06-2010 , 09:26 AM

warriorsquest

adept

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,019

vpip rather tells me if player is tight or loose, pfr if he's aggro or passive. If I'm off with this assumption, please enlighten me.

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10-06-2010 , 09:35 AM

alexd11

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,965

Well you tell me whether you think Limping and limp/calling shows signs of Passive or Aggressive play and maybe you can answer your own question.

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10-06-2010 , 10:36 AM

alexd11

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,965

To try and explain myself better,

Quote:

Originally Posted by warriorsquest

vpip rather tells me if player is tight or loose, pfr if he's aggro or passive.

Vpip tells you exactly one thing, how often a player has voluntarily put chips into the pot. That information can be discerned in a multitude of different ways, either by itself or in conjuction with other stats.

To say however that it only tells you one thing about a player, is to not look at the whole picture clearly.

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10-06-2010 , 10:54 AM

#10

Hirle

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 2,309

13*.77=10
13*.23=3

He raised 3 times out of 13 hands and VPIPped 7 other times (limping or calling raises). So while sample size sucks, we can say a couple of things... we can be fairly sure that he sucks and that he is not ultrapassive and does raise pre (I have a gazillion people in my DB running 70/0 over 5 million hands, this guy is not one of them).

So preflop looks fine, we are way ahead of his range and in pos. Post flop also looks fine and I guess I station it up, chances are he doing ******ed **** and chances are also that he'd have raised a lot of hands that hit this flop hard(er than you did) pre.

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10-06-2010 , 10:58 AM

#11

warriorsquest

adept

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,019

All right, I see where you're coming from now, Alex but I wouldn't call it ultrapassive either. Anyway, I still wouldn't exclude draws and weaker hands from his range here.

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10-06-2010 , 11:04 AM

#12

alexd11

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,965

Fair enough the semantics are that he's not UltraPassive, I tend to exaggerate but to put him on ******ed **** here I'd want at least one inclining that he's capable before I get my stack in with TPMK at lev 2.

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10-06-2010 , 11:06 AM

#13

alexd11

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,965

Quote:

Originally Posted by warriorsquest

All right, I see where you're coming from now, Alex but I wouldn't call it ultrapassive either. Anyway, I still wouldn't exclude draws and weaker hands from his range here.

No they're very much part of his range I agree. I think it's close either way but I tend to side with not stacking off this wide early on.

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10-06-2010 , 11:11 AM

#14

Hirle

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 2,309

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexd11

Its not just semantics, the fact that he does raise matters, there are tons of people that only put in a raise with the nuts I would instafold this to a 50/0/0.3. But yeah, you might be right and I might be a station (lol, "might" be a station

), its very hard to get a decent range here without a good post flop read (which we dont have)... so erring on the side of caution can never be too bad...

btw A read on his AF might do wonders here, sure we'd still have only 13 hands, but at least he played 10 of them.

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10-06-2010 , 11:39 AM

#15

mavs

old hand

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,796

AGF was 2.2 I think, it doesnt say much though.

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10-06-2010 , 12:02 PM

#16

alexd11

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,965

Can you spoiler us then Mavs? even though it's irrelevant to the discussion I am always a sucker to know.

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10-06-2010 , 12:28 PM

#17

mavs

old hand

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,796

I made a call, cause I thought he might spazz out with a lot worse stuff and he obv showed up with TT.

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10-06-2010 , 12:41 PM

#18

alexd11

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,965

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs

obv showed up with TT.

That's grotesque.

I stick with my assement that the alarm bells should be ringing when these kind of guys are c/raising you. Obv that can't always be the case and I'm sure you're ahead alot. Sucks balls though.

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10-06-2010 , 04:37 PM

#19

Master999

journeyman

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 383

In my opinion players that do this generally do it with a draw, even when they dont know much about poker they heard somewhere that if you check raise your draws, you might win the pot without oposition or you might hit if you get called... I think I call but i'm not very happy about it...

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