Not sure if this should be posted here or Internet Poker, but I figured I'd get better responses here.



On Saturday 2/25, I won a satellite to the LSOP (Latin series of poker) through the 5dimes network. The package included $800 in travel that was credited to my account, plus the $1650 buyin and hotel costs. While I originally wanted to play in the tournament, I realized if I could sell the ticket it was worth it to me. With this in mind, I emailed support about it and got this reply:

Greetings,

Please note that if you won an LSOP you can trade it, sell it to another player or send a friend to the tournament but we can not give you the $3500 cash, this since we have to make sure that there is someone going to the tournament in Lima.


Kind regards,

Diego
5Dimes Casino & Sportsbook
Customer Service
1-800-305- 3517

So again, with this in mind, I posted a thread on here and attempted to figure out who would buy in. I had little to no doubt that I would be able to sell it-don't think it will be too hard to find someone that was going anyways and wanted a cheaper trip.

At this point, my roll was about $1800 and I had $800 coming in for the airfare and $200 coming in from a promotion they were running, for a bankroll of roughly $2800. Again, I had zero doubt that I would, at an absolute absolute minimum I could find someone to buy it for $1500. I was playing well and decided to take a shot playing 1/2 and 2/4 Omaha. After my tournaments sunday (which, overall, I won money in), I ended up down about 1.5 buyins on the day, maybe two. On Monday morning, I received the $800 in airfare, and wanted to continue my shot taking-knowing I still had money coming in. I would not have played if I wasn't going to be able to sell the ticket. I already had some interested in it, so again, no reason not to assume I wouldn't. I ended up with $700 in my account at the end of Monday (even after another positive day in tournaments), which, as pissed as I was, I was fine with. I had taken my shot and then I was done.

Then I see this email.

Dear Customer,

Greetings,
Today we contact you to clarify specific details concerning the seat you won for the Latin Series of Poker.

As per the Terms & Conditions agreed for the poker service,
"Players will be unable to sell their package to another player,
an exception will be made only in the case of a player winning more
than one package, in such an event they will be allowed to sell the
extra packages.
* Players that win a second LSOP package but do not wish to
attend will have the option to sell their package back to the network
for a total amount of $2,300


As you can see this kind of seat cannot be transferred or sold to another party.
We apologize for any inconvenience that any misunderstanding could have caused.


Let us know if we may be of further assistance.



Best Regards
Fred
Customer Service
5Dimes SportsBook & Casino
1 800 305 3517

In all of my correspondence with emails and customer service reps between Saturday and Monday, I was never once told that I needed to win a 2nd package to be able to sell it. Not once. Now they are? After I took a shot? After I had already lost more money than you'd given me for airfare, just because you told me that I was allowed to sell the package??

Time to attempt to talk to customer service again. After a few emails/calls, I was told to go on live chat to talk to their operations manager, which I just did. Here is the chat:



You are now chatting with 'Becky'
Becky: Greetings, how can I help you today?
Tyler Hess: Becky, I've been emailing back and forth with some of the poker support reps and I've ran into a bit of a problem recently. I recently won an LSOP poker package, and was told a few times that I would be allowed to sell it. With that in mind, and knowing I would have 0 problems finding a buyer, I took shots playing games that were above my limits-I knew I had a minimum of another 2K coming in and I wanted to take the shot. I ended up losing more than 2 gand, which I was fine with...until I got an email saying that I was actually not allowed to sell the ticket. I never would have played the cash games at those limits if not told i could sell my ticket and i feel like I should either be allowed to sell the ticket or be refunded the money lost in games that I wouldn't have played if not told something that was false.
Becky: Tyler, "I never would have played" that i dont know... if you participate for a LSOP seat, you better ask before than after, we told you what the poker room network informed us
Becky: unfortunately we already contact them again, asked if there was a chance to allow you to sell it to another player
Becky: but they were strict in the fact that YOU are the prize winner & only you can take advantage of it
Becky: we did our part trying to intercede for you, unfortunately or fortunately for you, as you want to see it, the prize is yours & you get to go
Tyler Hess: Becky, what I'm saying is that I was told after winning the prize that I could sell it
Becky: as for the losses, if there were winnings, i wouldnt be asking for you to return them
Tyler Hess: and then days later, after adjusting how I played, that I couldnt
Tyler Hess: but it also wouldnt have been my fault
Becky: so your account stays as it is
Tyler Hess: becasue I wouldn't have been the one to say one thing and then done another
Tyler Hess: Greetings, Please note that if you won an LSOP you can trade it, sell it to another player or send a friend to the tournament but we can not give you the $3500 cash, this since we have to make sure that there is someone going to the tournament in Lima. Kind regards, Diego 5Dimes Casino & Sportsbook Customer Service 1-800-305- 3517
Tyler Hess: ???????/
Becky: woulda coulda.... none are going to make me change the fact that the losses/winnings you incurred in are yours
Tyler Hess: YOU GUYS LIED TO ME!!!!!!
Becky: we told you what the Poker Network provider informed us
Tyler Hess: If you don't lie, I don't play!
Tyler Hess: FACT!
Tyler Hess: LIE!
Tyler Hess: then let me talk to them
Tyler Hess: becasue they are the ones who said it obviously!!
Becky: who you needed to talk to was me, I did my best trying to intercede to allow you to sell/trade your ticket but it wasnt possible
Tyler Hess: then why was i oridinally told that I was able to?
Tyler Hess: If you can answer that, then I will stop questioning it and won't take any further action
Tyler Hess: and not only originally told I could, but when I talked to custoemr srvice reps they didn't correct it
Becky: because that is what was originally reported to us
Tyler Hess: then we should be going with what I was originally told
Tyler Hess: you can't just change your minds on a whim when it deals with peoples money
Tyler Hess: Like I said, I would either like to be recompensated for the money I lost playing 1/2 and 2/4 Omaha, or be allowed to sell the ticket
Becky: I am not going to refund your losses, I will insist to the poker support team
Becky: maybe they will allow you to sell the ticket
Becky: after a little more negotiating
Tyler Hess: thats all i want
Becky: but that is as far as i will go
Tyler Hess: is to be able to sell it
Tyler Hess: but if i can't...a refund seems more than fair
Tyler Hess: and from the poker room, not the betting site (if there's a difference)
Becky: i was already clear on that, i am not refunding you for the losses you had
Becky: that is not going to happen
Becky: if the poker networks authorizes an exception with your prize, great
Becky: if not, that is as far as we go
Tyler Hess: lmao...what a joke. You guys really don't get anything about poker, bankroll management, shot taking, or life in general, do you
Tyler Hess: all I want to do is to be able to do what I was originally told I could
Tyler Hess: how about this one as well becky...I've already spent the $800 I was given for a flight because I was told I could sell the ticket. What now?
Becky: I'm pretty sure you can blame even your cable bill on us now... its just a matter of getting creative
Tyler Hess: lmao are you really this ******ed?
Tyler Hess: don't tell me something that deals with 3500 cash and then switch your mind on a goddamn whim
Tyler Hess: ****ing fools
Becky: this chat is over
Becky: keep up your smart ass attitude, i dont need to take your crap

Pretty upset about getting lied to here in this spot, especially with the shot taking. All I want at this time is to be able to sell my ticket, as I was told I would be able to. Do I think I deserve the money back that I lost? No. Do I think I deserve it if I can't sell the ticket? Yes, actually, I do.


cliffs:
win seat to LSOP
Get told by customer support that I can sell
Start to line up buyers
take shot, lose over 2K, including money given for airfare because I was going to sell ticket
get told I can no longer sell ticket
send their operations manager into tilt induced rage


Thoughts, two plus twoers?

you handled this pretty poorly. don't count your chickens before they hatch etc etc.

they don't owe you anything imo

also, stop trying to insist that you virtually had a buyer locked up, it doesn't help your case and makes you look like you're grasping at straws after having degenned off your roll.

This is always helpful when dealing with supportstaffs.

Ya, I realize this.

I think most of my rage also stems from the fact that every time I've dealt with most of their staff, they come off as more and more of a joke.

(Ie, back in october, I won a future bet that I had placed in september on the cardinals to make the world series. I talked to their customer support a few times and was told that I'd easily be able to cash out between the time the cardinals won and game 6 of the world series (the game I'd planned to go to if I won the future bet). They cashout ended up taking three weeks, and I didn't get to go to one of the best baseball games of my lifetime because I didn't have the cash in hand. I would have cashed out other funds well before that if they hadn't told me I'd be fine)

That comes with every supportstaff. Not everyone is as smart as your average pokerplayer.
If you stay patient and friendly, it will work out in the end most of the time tho.

Cheap lesson learned. Don't assume that info you receive from support is correct.

EDIT: especially when dealing with $ that means a lot to you.

Lol this is clearly no ones fault but your own. Actually laughing so hard at the fact that you want money back for your loses at cash games. Then you go on to tell the staff they dont know anything about shot taking and bankroll management!

TOO FUNNY

I don't actually want the money back, just want to sell the package like I was told and figure that was the easiest way to get it


(and some of the **** I said was because half way through I knew I'd be posting on here...such as what you said )

then you are a bigger dolt than i first thought

Ask yourself this: Would you try and give the money back if you won 5 BIs when you took your shot?

they didnt steal anything imo, you still have your package. i think you could maybe be mad at their support for poor communication, but thats it. i dont get why you would play a satty that your not going to play anaways, especially since all sites besides stars have poor communication and lead to instances liek this

jiggly, I originally planned on playing it. If they would have told me I couldn't sell the package, I would have played it. But I was told I could, so I decided that was in my best interest. I played with the 800$ I was given for flight.

Also, the "if you won" argument is dumb, becasue I was misinformed-not the other way around. Just like I would expect to not get to keep money won if I deposited with fake money, I do not expect to pay for things lost under false pretenses.

Not that it matters at this point, my accounts been closed lolol.

edit:closed by them

The "if you won, would you have given the money back?" is a fallacy, and I see support give arguments like this all the time.

Not taking your side on this, you handled yourself poorly, but it's annoying to see Support(on all sites) give arguments like this when it's just avoiding the problem.

agree on all aspects, including that I handled it poorly

lol @ this being a thread. Also, the "but what if you had won" argument is of course a valid one, because they are just pointing out the fact that you are making a bad attempt at trying to freeroll them.

Maybe next time you shouldn't gamble with money you don't have yet cuz **** happens.

rofl

Take everything else away...how the hell was I trying to freeroll them at all? C'mon, man. Even now, I've said numerous times I don't actually want to get that money back-I just want to be able to sell the ticket like I was told I could. I don't see how the but what if you had won is even close to a valid argument in this case.

It doesn't matter what your actual intentions are. Think of it from their perspective the way you presented yourself. Don't know how it wouldn't look like a freeroll to them imo.

Why didn't you read the T&C for the satellite before you played it?

Looks like support person "Diego" didn't know the rules either but still. Its now their fault you played outside your BR and now can't go on the trip?

Also, why didn't you borrow money/use credit card so you could go to Game 6 knowing that the money was coming?

And if they looked at it from my perspective, they would see that if I can't sell the ticket I'm screwed two ways-both from losing the money (including the moeny for the flight), and from losing guaranteed equity from selling the package. I was told one thing and reacted...how long should I have waited to act like I had the money? Two days before the event?

Because a) I hate/dont buy things on credit (especially when I plan on paying for it from an online gambling site after BF), and b) I have noone to borrow money from where I can say, "Hey, I've got money from gambling coming in". I'd get laughed at.

Let's say I read the T&C, and still asked the question if I could sell it...If I get an answer from someone representing a company, I expect it to be accurate.

[ ] guaranteed equity
[x] wait until you have the money before you act like you have the money

ok, guaranteed a chance to sell it. better?

a chance to sell it is not a guarantee of anything

its a guarantee that I can do what I can to sell it...I've had three offers. So, ya, it's a guarantee of something.

Yeah, wait however long it takes to get it before acting like you have the money. To be honest I'm shocked that you had so much confidence in credit funded by a place such as 5dimes, especially after your WS debacle.

I'd also think it's pretty obv that confirming the rules yourself instead of listening to what a bunch of support agents say is the way to go given the history of support agents and their knowledge of rules/policy. Who knows, maybe for some reason they thought it was a multiple entry or something and that's why they were telling you it could be sold. Iirc it's pretty std to not be able to sell your first entry from satties anyway, but I could be wrong.