Poker Stars $50+$5 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t15/t30 Blinds - 9 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

UTG: t2030
UTG+1: t1860
UTG+2: t4185
MP1: t2735
MP2: t3070
CO: t3045
BTN: t3165
Hero (SB): t2850
BB: t6970

Pre Flop: Hero is SB with K A
1 fold, UTG+1 calls t30, 1 fold, MP1 calls t30, 1 fold, CO raises to t150, BTN calls t150, Hero raises to t660, 3 folds, CO calls t510, 1 fold

Flop: (t1560) J 5 4 (2 players)
Hero bets t2190 all in

A bit unsure about both preflop and flop

Flatting sucks pre b/c you'll be OOP/dealing with some sig reverse-implied odds in a multiway pot (i'm assuming that at least one of the limpers will call.) CO's flat of your 3-bet is kinda scary b/c a lot of players will flat here with JJ/QQ and wait for a safe flop to get it in. Flop i think i might check b/c this flop texture would be good to check AA, and overbet-open-shoving gets looked up by TT a fair amt of time.

does it sound bad when we think of folding preflop here? OOP, and with a strong raise this early, and a flat call, we are prob not that much in front with our AKo.

I really like to fold pre here.

i think the flop shove is spew. 73bbs is still enough to play and you're only going to get called by better hands. By shoving, which is an overbet, you're turning your hand into a bluff.

Since you're bluffing, you now need to think of a few things. What do you think he has? What do you think he'd fold? What do you think he thinks you have and what do you think he would be calling with.

Try to think of a range he'd raise 5x after a few limps and call a 3bet in position. I personally think he would call with almost every hand that beats you and fold the hands that are worse. Without reads, I can imagine him raising two broadways and pocket pairs. Then with the call, it narrows his range a little. Hes probably folding the smaller pocket pairs.

I think in this case, Villian is going to call with TT+ and any J. I think your shove is major spew because there are enough hands that Villain calls your shove. 73bb is tons of play and I think you can get it in better than ~27% (assuming he calls with a pair) I think that a hand that beats you and is willing to call is enough in Villains range for you to be just burning money.

folding pre is pretty lame. 5x isn't that strong of a raise. Many hands that AK crushes is in the range of hands that CO raises. You need to rethink your play style if you aren't willing to play AK here.

hmm, this early in a tourney, people don't try to steal that often with crap hands IMO, and they'll not make big raises with total spew IMO. Esp, we are not talking about a 5.50$ or something, the 55$ has some more Quality in General IMO, sure they are soft, but the people there have some clue more often then not. And with a flat call on the BU, i don't like it.

Calling is so bad pre. So def. no option at all. And i don't like the reraise either, , cuz were a OOP, and we will prob get a push from somebody, or at least a call. Cuz raising 5x this early is a hand very often. Later, you can pick up blinds, bla bla, and then youre give your opponent a wider range, but if somebody raises 5x this early just to try stealing the blinds - awful poker. And 5x isn't a strong raise? WTF? W00t is a strong raise? 10-15BB's? Are we now in the world where we are try to play as bad as Jerry Yang and raise to 494 BB's pre?

a 5x raise is a standard raise under the 3x + 1 for every limper rule.

You forget that people play more hands in the beginning because stacks are deeper, so people can flat 76s on the button or whatever. Deeper stacks means people play more hands in the beginning of tournaments.

Just because its a $55 tournament doesnt mean that people are uber nits, as your opinion appears to reflect.

and FYI read the op correctly, HERO is the sb, so how are we going to get a push from the sb?

The raise might not even be meant to steal blinds, it might be used to juice the pot with a hand someone might want to play.

And with raising here, getting a call isn't as bad as you make it seem like.

sb = somebody. not Small blind.

but im a nit early on, so forget what i said. i don't like it, and without a read i prolly fold OOP. Calling is bad, and i don't like a raise either. Sure, they can be on SCs, etc. but how often does this happen? Not very often IMO, they'll have a hand more often then not, so IMO you can fold here very easily, without thinking to much.

But yah, i prolly shoulda be loose early, and don't try to be spewy later, when the blinds worth stealing, shoulda try that...later in a tourney, raises vom CO, BU are much looser than early, despite the bigger stacks (3k not 1.5k)

you have to remember that not everyone plays like you. I would personally love for every AK in the sb to fold to my normal raises. People play broadways and pps in position early in tournaments. Folding AK here is a leak IMO.

and sb doesn't mean somebody on 2p2, it means small blind.

ah yah, sry. i made a mistake by saying SB for somebody, lol. can happen at times.

And what you do if you get pushed after your raise? fist pump call when you know your prob better then most of the field and have an edge later, outplaying them etc. bla bla? Trying to Flip this early for your Tourney, or maybe beeing behind, were it's not need at all? i hate this.

And if your getting a call, after your raise which is very likely this early, woot you do if you dont hit? C/F, loosing 1/3 your chips? Where you didn't have to make a play?

I believe the Slansky Advanced Tournament book said folding AKo to an UTG raise wasn't incorrect. I figure calling OOP is worse than calling in position. Still I'd raise here, but a reraise this large almost commits Hero, why not 3 bet to ~450 so you can c-bet and get out. As played you can check fold flop and if he checks behind he probably has worse or the same hand.

Well if he shoves, we're getting odds on the call and the action in itself is +ev. I'd rather take a flip in the beginning of a tournament than the end, as I have close to 0 time invested and the double stack would help me more than waiting and blinding down until we are short.

You're obv exaggerating, as a 3bet probably wouldnt be 1/3 of our chips. As played it was less than 1/4 of Hero's stack and 73bbs would enough to continue and be okay with losing the hand. Just because we don't hit an A or K doesnt mean we can't cbet.

Calling it a 'play' implies that 3betting AK is a bluff. What do you think the range of Villain is? Villain can play a wider range of hands than you think.

This early? First Villain IMO +99+AQ, and the flatter any PP or SC maybe, maybe AJ, or AQ, but unlikely IMO.

A villains range in raising UTG is much much much narrower than the range of hands a villain raises in the CO. You compared them as if they were a control and you were only comparing relative positions between the hands.

You need to know that these are very different situations. Generally, people raise like AQ+ and TT+ utg. But in the CO, people raise significantly more hands.

I think you have it backwards. People play loose in the beginning and uber tight in the middle/end. Without noted reads, don't assume everyone plays like you do. Your range is missing all broadway hands.

raising first in with marginal hands this early is just spew IMO. At any position. Squeezing the Limpers? Why? No need. Blinds? lol, don't have to pick them up. not worth it at all.

i think it's not good, but i respect other opinions and maybe im way off, but i think playing tight early is the best way in MTTs.

You are assuming they play like you do. Its not a squeeze, its just a raise. People dont only raise to steal blinds. People often raise to build pots with SCs or hands that can hit hands. With deeper stacks, people can play more poker.

Just because you're uber tight doesnt mean the unknown villain is. You need to realize this or this argument is never going to end because all you're going to do is say "why would someone raise in the CO without a top 10 hand, its spew imo". Without reads, you cant assume the Villain thinks that raising not top 10 hands is spew.

I Would def Fold pre flop here. Still really early in tourney. Wait for a way better spot.

+1

what you think of folding pre, shutem?

I like a smaller PF raise and a c-bet, where they might be folding their 1010, instead of that big RR PF and the overshove, which sometimes really just looks like AK and gets looked up by 88-1010 kinda hands, whereas a c-bet more likely takes it down right there IMO... also, you could opt to check the flop if you want to, whereas villain might be bit scared because of that check... but given your commiting raise PF you cannot really choose anything on the flop, which kinda sucks...


€dit: @HotKarl: folding pre is just too weak, we are way ahead of that 5x range, even on the 50$ level imo... but then again, I'm hardly ever playing those so I dunno really, but they are not that tough from what I've seen

+1

Id also like to add that you could CHK flop with the intention of CR shoving which looks alot scarier than the overbet flop shove. such a play folds out some hands that would have called otherwise.

heh, interesting plan... never done that before, CR shoving on AK high on a J high flop... But do you think people are ever folding if they decide to bet their ~99-1010 in that spot? Ofc they might bet AQ and fold, but I don't think they'd bet after being checked to in that spot on such a dry flop...

you've gotten good results with that move so far? have to think about that one again

Yeah I'm kinda with lemming on this one....not sure what kind of hands youre folding out w a c/r shove here except a complete bluff

personally, i dont like to overbet shove this flop either and I dont like raising so much OOP here because it kind of makes hero feel like he needs to get it in on any flop. but stacks are pretty deep, and imo there is no need for that...I'm one that really doesnt hate flatting pre this early or raising smaller and either small cbet on this type of flop or c/f flop if we miss

I said "could"....and I say that because CRAI is much better than overbet shoving flop in this particular situation. its another play that works, and it works better than open shoving such a flop, IMO.

say for instance you were villian and I just r/r u pf and then CRAI on flop, what hands are u fistpump calling with? not too many huh.