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 Ongame AKo cbet sizing question  Ongame AKo cbet sizing question

01-13-2010 , 09:03 PM
Villain is 46/11/2.4 on 89 hands
What would be a good cbet size here?
I think Im committed w/ stack and pot ratio if I cbet 1/2 or 2/3 the pot and villain might stackoff with any pair or flush draw.

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $100(BB) On Game
SB ($1,900)
BB ($1,400)
UTG ($3,365)
Hero ($1,990)
UTG+2 ($3,045)
MP1 ($2,065)
MP2 ($2,445)
CO ($1,920)
BTN ($1,870)

Dealt to Hero K A

UTG calls $100, Hero raises to $350, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, UTG calls $250

FLOP ($850) 5 2 Q

UTG checks, Hero bets $1,640 (AI), UTG folds

Hero shows K A

Hero wins $850

Last edited by ronmar; 01-13-2010 at 09:08 PM. Reason: added site
 Ongame AKo cbet sizing question Quote
01-13-2010 , 09:11 PM
Hero bets T500?

Hero checks behind in position?
 Ongame AKo cbet sizing question Quote
01-14-2010 , 02:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Admiral
Hero bets T500?

Hero checks behind in position?
ok if I check behind and villain donks a scare or brick card, can we call depending on betsize?
 Ongame AKo cbet sizing question Quote
01-14-2010 , 08:41 AM
What kind of scare card are you thinking about? Any overcard pairs us. The only scare card I can think of is a heart and that's not too scary.

It depends a little on his stats but I'm not averse to calling a 1/2 pot turn bet, that gives us 2 more cards for the same price as a flop bet that may well get RR.
 Ongame AKo cbet sizing question Quote
01-14-2010 , 08:52 AM
I don't play this high, but with my stack size and the size of the blinds, I prolly just check behind on the flop.

On the turn, I fold to a bet unless I hit the ace or king.
 Ongame AKo cbet sizing question Quote
01-14-2010 , 02:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Admiral
Hero bets T500?

Hero checks behind in position?
Think about this admiral. You have as strong of a hand as ak with 20 BB. You make it 350 pf, 500 flop, and fold to his shove. Now you just burned off 850 chips and are down to 1150 after somehow accomplishing a no showdown lost pot with ak.

I personally like a shove preflop the best option by far.

If you dont want to shove, make it a size where shoving the flop looks a bit more natural (~450).

Having got to the flop all options but shoving are bad (LOL ESP CHECKING BACK WHAT TERRIBAD ADVICE) good instincts.
 Ongame AKo cbet sizing question Quote
01-14-2010 , 02:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheater11
Think about this admiral. You have as strong of a hand as ak with 20 BB. You make it 350 pf, 500 flop, and fold to his shove. Now you just burned off 850 chips and are down to 1150 after somehow accomplishing a no showdown lost pot with ak.

I personally like a shove preflop the best option by far.

If you dont want to shove, make it a size where shoving the flop looks a bit more natural (~450).

Having got to the flop all options but shoving are bad (LOL ESP CHECKING BACK WHAT TERRIBAD ADVICE) good instincts.
I do find your tone quite patronising.

I disagree that shoving 20BB is good pre flop. AK is a solid hand. We're making a standard value raise (I prefer it a little bigger but W/E), there is no reason to shove. This villian will likely call a raise with A9+,AXs, KQ, KJ, KTs which we have crushed but won't call the shove.

Why is checking behind IP so bad? I personally like to play this way vs most opponents on most flops. Here villain seems uber loose so I prefer the check.

The C-bet would not be a bad idea either (but probably not vs this villain), the Q high flop may well have missed him and/or be an overcard to his pair, equally he may just call and check the turn to you based on your agression.

I think this is the standard AK connundrum and you have options of how to play it.
 Ongame AKo cbet sizing question Quote
01-14-2010 , 02:58 PM
Think about shoving ak pf here as being unexploitable and the possibilities of losing chips on future streets with such a good unmade hand with as shallow of a stack as 20 BB as being awful.

also, its ongame. he'll call off with aj's, aq's all day prefrop.
 Ongame AKo cbet sizing question Quote
01-14-2010 , 03:03 PM
So the reason for shoving 20 BB into the whole table is that we might get called wide. I would like to hear your reasoning behind that, might be a big leak in my game...
 Ongame AKo cbet sizing question Quote
01-14-2010 , 03:05 PM
Wow, love the bold. Really adds to the post.

I really don't see a standard raise with AK as being awful.

I think we are coming from different planets so discussion here seems pointless. Enjoy the thread.
 Ongame AKo cbet sizing question Quote
01-14-2010 , 03:31 PM
Yeah, my planet harbors one of the best 2+2 STT posters. How bout urs chief?

1comeprepared: I like shoving better on ongame that ps obviously. On pokerstars i still think is a trivial shove. But on a random site people will ignore stack sizes, position, will just play illogically because 100% of the players on that site suck and will just mash the call button and their thinking is as low as, i have ace jack and norman chad on wsop 2008 coverage said its a good hand so boom broken mouse snap call time. But oh, he has ak. I won't learn from my mistakes either because im that bad, maybe he'll have a pair next time... cant always have ak!!

and as noted in my post above, if he folds his deuces it all good. We scoop the pot pf and get into no awkward spots post.
 Ongame AKo cbet sizing question Quote
01-14-2010 , 07:06 PM
I use this raisesize aswel preflop

The flop is too good not to cbet imo.. I expect cbetting to be +EV fo shore. Something like 400-500 should be fine.

I'm not averse to checking behind and there are definatly arguments for it.
Shoving looks like the worst option we have here (to me) because the risk/reward is too bad to make it a profitabel cbet. Villain is just gonna play fit/fold and you'll always be behind when called.

edit: fisheater not sure why you're making a personal argument out of this.. no need for ramblings (or is it all just flamebait?)
 Ongame AKo cbet sizing question Quote

      
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