Is QQ good enough to call a raise and a shove? I did make the reshove here but can QQ really be good?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 52 Tournament, 100/200 Blinds 20 Ante (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Hand Converter from HandHistoryConverter.com

MP1 (t1615)
MP2 (t820)
CO (t2109)
Button (t1040)
SB (t3947)
Hero (BB) (t2720)
UTG (t1439)
UTG+1 (t1310)

Hero's M: 5.91

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q, Q
2 folds, MP1 bets t600, MP2 raises to t800 (All-In), 3 folds, [color=#CC3333]Hero?

btw, there is a great thread dedicated to dons, and we could use the hand discussion to lighten the tension after being chastised by a moderator.


your assumption that shorty has to have a monster is wrong. he could easily figure that he is getting "protection" from mp1 and could be showing up with something like 54s. i would not figure his range to change much from what it would be to open.

sngwiz has this as a push with mp2 repushing at 12.3% (probably on the tight side) and mp1 opening 10.5% and calling your push at 3.8%. and it gets better the tighter mp1 calls you and the wider mp2 pushes. that being said, your edge is never very large here and passing is fine.

I would push all in with out thinking about monsters under my bed... At worst you will loose slightly more then half of your stack(sucks but I will take a chance) only if MP1 one has AA or KK.... PUSH

I would come over the top. 1st raise i would consider standard to pick up blinds. def want to try to isolate then face 2 hands. As person above said worse case your left with decent chip stack. WOuld like to see others opinion on it though.

I know there is a DoN thread I just think it is so confusing to read it, 20 different discussions going on at once... Also I was thinking that if we atleast moved the hand reviews out of the DoN thread and just used it for overall strategy discussion it might not be as confusing.

You really think anybody would be doing something like that with 54s? Seems like an awful waste of money to me.

I think passing is probably the better play here, risking a lot of my stack against 2 players is kinda dangerous isn't it?

But the short stack can not make significant damage to your stack if you loose to him, and all you can worry about is the MP1 who can only damage your stak if he has AA or KK, but what are the chances...

yeah, the chastising was kind of about all the nonsense that has been cluttering up the DON thread. i still think it is the best place for DON analysis. you are welcome to post hands either in the thread or in the st forum as you see fit.

as far as the shorty goes, yes, i do think he could have 54s here. it is not as bad a play as you think (*NOTE* i am not advocating it). imagine you are a random player, and with 8 players left and blinds at 100/200 you have about half the starting stack. You could easily envision your equity to be 0 right now, but if you double up, you are right back in it. the guy to your right raises, and you figure if you go all in here, you will probably be heads up and you probably wont be dominated. Being on the wrong end of a 60/40 doesnt seem that bad, does it?


as far as the initial raiser goes, he only raised to 600. he isnt married to the hand. true, you want him to fold, but that is why i say reraise instead of call the 800. but as has been pointed out, if he calls and beats you, it\s not the end of the world.

Definitely shove this. It is likely that MP1 will fold, even if he doesn't we are probably in good shape. Shorty could have anything. He could make this play with what he felt were two live cards and the hope to get HU with MP1 for a flip, so u are crushing his range. Even worse case scenario, you have enough chips left to continue.

Good points, filing them away for future use

I agree about the DON thread, I think we need a subforum really bad =/ I mean for christ sakes golf and chess have one

anyway I'd probably fold this because our tournament equity is HUGE but I think its close.

How bad is the mp1? If hes a reg he probably has KK or AA here raising 1/3 of his stack. If hes a donk I dont think hes raising super wide here and will call your shove with a large % of his range. I think the mp2 is pushing wide so its pretty close. I think if its a loose table Im folding but if its tight and the game will go on for a while Im shoving.

This is very true. It would def. make it much less cluttered and easier for everybody if they just made a subforum for DON strategy as I think 2+2 DON players would benefit greatly from this. The DON thread right now is in my opinion just way to cluttered and alot of players that post in there are like losing $1, $5, $10 don players and you lose so much time trying to read through the nonsense. If you could just go down through diff hands posted in a neat subforum it would be a much quicker learning process and beneficial for all here. Just my 2cents. Maybe we need to lobby harder for this.

Why would QQ not reshove?

1. MP1 should be gangraped for NOT shoving
2. MP1 Donkbets/donkcommits his stack in there
3. MP2 HAS to get it in with something like JQ+,77+ if he's decent.
4. You get like 2.5-1 or something like that in pot odds with a golden hand.

Yuck-bad. Level = 2-2.5x open OR shove, not 3x-commit. At BEST if he wanted to induce a worse hand raising he'd 2x it with KK/AA... not 3x half his stack in, thats just tool. This player, MP1, also got to little big blinds to be making bold plays, he has to shove to isolate IF someone calls.

Argh, I can't find the HH again so I can't check who MP1 was, but I believe they were both randoms.