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 2r1a weird overbet river spot  2r1a weird overbet river spot

09-12-2011 , 08:19 PM
So villain had been raising my blind a lot and had never limped which surprised me. Normally I'd bet this flop almost always, but I felt his limping range was either nutted or had very few outs to beat me, and the range that did have me beat would almost always c/raise making me fold... I don't know. In truth, my time bank was 0 and I had very little time to think any of my line through and ended up folding without any real rationale. What do we do OTR? Seems like a weird spot for him to overbet with his entire range...



    Poker Stars, $5 Buy-in (500/1,000 blinds, 125 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 8 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #10560562

    SB: 41,869 (41.9 bb)
    Hero (BB): 35,437 (35.4 bb)
    UTG+2: 94,973 (95 bb)
    MP1: 60,896 (60.9 bb)
    MP2: 54,612 (54.6 bb)
    MP3: 33,613 (33.6 bb)
    CO: 17,994 (18 bb)
    BTN: 14,279 (14.3 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BB with 7 9
    6 folds, SB completes, Hero checks

    Flop: (3,000) 9 T 5 (2 players)
    SB checks, Hero checks

    Turn: (3,000) 6 (2 players)
    SB bets 1,000, Hero calls 1,000

    River: (5,000) A (2 players)
    SB bets 8,000, Hero folds

    Spoiler:
    Results: 5,000 pot
    Final Board: 9 T 5 6 A
    SB mucked and won 5,000 (2,875 net)
    Hero mucked 7 9 and lost (-2,125 net)



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     2r1a weird overbet river spot Quote
    09-12-2011 , 08:29 PM
    Bet 1200 otf. If he raises we can call and reeval turn but hes def gonna flat a bit too. As played the hand looks standard.
     2r1a weird overbet river spot Quote
    09-13-2011 , 03:35 AM
    whats your image? how did you react to his raises BvB/BTN vs Blinds?

    i'm raising this pre like 90% of the time with a tight image and then just keep betting usually.

    without more info very easy river fold.
     2r1a weird overbet river spot Quote
    09-13-2011 , 03:56 AM
    he either wants you to have an ace really bad, or he wants you to believe he has an ace really bad, but which one is it? How do you guys tell the difference between the two?
     2r1a weird overbet river spot Quote
    09-13-2011 , 04:25 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by furo
    whats your image? how did you react to his raises BvB/BTN vs Blinds?

    i'm raising this pre like 90% of the time with a tight image and then just keep betting usually.

    without more info very easy river fold.
    I had been mostly folding to his blind raises quite a bit when I was deeper stacked, and when I got down to 20bb ish area I shoved a few times but nothing super wide. He hadn't looked any of my shoves up so I assume he views me as fairly nitty. His raise % was close to if not 100% when folded to him, and he was probably the most aggressive at the table.

    The reason I didn't raise was because his limp was very weird to me given his aggression. I felt it was either super nutted (like QQ+) or a random hand that wanted to limp/raise, or perhaps some junk that wanted a cheap flop. I figured against this range, my best play is to c/behind. I may have misinterpreted this range.

    Unfortunately, a lot of my decisions were made very quick because I had 0 time bank at this point like I pointed out in OP, so I didn't really have time to fully think it through. I think flop is probably a bet/fold now, but as played I don't think I can do anything differently on the turn.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lol_gossip
    he either wants you to have an ace really bad, or he wants you to believe he has an ace really bad, but which one is it? How do you guys tell the difference between the two?
    This was mostly my river thinking. I was kind of confused; it doesn't look like either of us have many Axs given preflop, but I also felt like he probably did have some Axs that were planning on limp raising preflop or limp-calling but didn't want to bet/call or bet/fold since I had been shoving enough over his raises, but this was also when I was <20bb deep... I felt like it's possible he missed a c/raise OTF with some big draws/2-pairs as well, but wasn't sure. I really wish I had had more time to think this through, but I suppose he has enough random 2pair+ hands in his range and a few A8 A7 type of hands for it to be a good fold. His sizing OTT makes me think the most likely value hands are A8/A7 that are just taking a stab (maybe with A)...

    Last edited by canoodles; 09-13-2011 at 04:31 AM.
     2r1a weird overbet river spot Quote
    09-13-2011 , 04:34 AM
    with your image postflop seems fine and i would not play it otherwise. i'd check the flop (since i expect him to bet no showdown hands vs you), call or bet turn, and bluffcatch alot of rivers on that card but not vs this sizing without better reads.
    for me the real question is preflop where i'd raise + cbet this on almost all textures with a tightish image vs someone wide.
     2r1a weird overbet river spot Quote
    09-13-2011 , 04:34 AM
    btw i snapfold in this spot, was just trying to start a theory discussion because its something i think about alot
     2r1a weird overbet river spot Quote
    09-13-2011 , 04:43 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by furo
    with your image postflop seems fine and i would not play it otherwise. i'd check the flop (since i expect him to bet no showdown hands vs you), call or bet turn, and bluffcatch alot of rivers on that card but not vs this sizing without better reads.
    for me the real question is preflop where i'd raise + cbet this on almost all textures with a tightish image vs someone wide.
    This had a lot to do with my check/back although at the time it was not articulated quite in this manner. I felt like he would bet his complete bluffs and his nuts and check/be cautious with his medium strength hands. I was still thinking that most of his range that I did have beat had very little equity against me so betting didn't seem to accomplish much. I think I was a little FPSish in this hand though and should've taken a simple b/fold line or been contented with the line I took. Probably based on the "random fishyness factor", his range is much wider than I had thought.
     2r1a weird overbet river spot Quote
    09-13-2011 , 04:48 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by canoodles
    I think I was a little FPSish in this hand though and should've taken a simple b/fold line or been contented with the line I took. Probably based on the "random fishyness factor", his range is much wider than I had thought.
    if you think his check OTF = midstrength hand (which i agree to) why would you b/f flop? c/r for him reps as you say, close to nothing.
     2r1a weird overbet river spot Quote
    09-13-2011 , 05:06 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by furo
    if you think his check OTF = midstrength hand (which i agree to) why would you b/f flop? c/r for him reps as you say, close to nothing.
    I just wrote a lengthy reply but deleted it because it doesn't make enough sense. I've been up for a long time and am too tired to be coherent right now, but I think you're probably right. I'll revisit this tomorrow and write a better reply, thanks for the responses.
     2r1a weird overbet river spot Quote
    09-15-2011 , 03:07 AM
    i bet the flop.
     2r1a weird overbet river spot Quote

          
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