hey

main opponent is 20/12 for 120 hands. I wouldn't say he is horrible, but he also hasn't done anything to impress me either.

Original limper is 30/0 for 50 hands. The reason I didn't raise the limper is because the same player limped the hand before and i iso'ed with AQo. He flatted and then donk lead on a KJ8 flop and i folded.

I won't give my thoughts on the hand just yet.

So rate my bluff.

And if you'd like to, let me know what you think villain's range is to bet the turn and to flat my raise?

cheers

Dont like it dude, you don't rep anything and your trying to bluff in a multi way pot against 3 players on a wet board.

my rule of thumb is I will only bluff in a pot where is there is 2 or less players.

Also your line is funky, how do you suddenly love your hand ott when the 2 hits? only hand that makes sense is 22 which is a very small part of your range, against thinking players they should know if you had a good hand you would bet it on that wet board vs 3 others for value and protection..
ie: if you had Kx, 44, KJ you would never check that wet flop vs three others so I would feel it is quite unlikely you had those holdings and discount them somewhat from your range, Also because you didn't raise pre your range is capped so I could further discount hands like AA,KK,JJ,AK. So if I was villian I would be curious and curiousity leads to calls maybe thinking you are raising on some sort of draw.

Also something has to be said about running advanced manoevers like this is ssmtts, you are guna have a worse time doing it here than say hsmtts. Esp when guys are pretty sticky/passive running 30/0 over 50, these are not the type of players to target your bluffs at, counteract them by playing your value range more often and let them run into your blade when they call you down light.

hate every street except the flop(ok we have to bet the river after rasing turn). you isod the hand before - iso again! he just had you beat the last hand, it doesn´t mean hes donking every flop just because he did it once! what do you rep ott? 22? thats not enough. spew imo

i also think that better to iso again even considering what you have said about the history with him
as for bluff i don't like it man..
i don't agree with somebody above that you are representing only 22. ok you also represent (awkwardly) slowplayed Kx,44, KJ if villain is not good he could think that you could slowplay that hands but still this is not good bluff imo, board is too dangerous for you, too many hands which not folding.
his range i think medium pocket pair, JK, JT, may be Kx. from this range espesially if we think that villain is not good i hardly believe that he will fold any hand better than yours. he will fold only pure bluff or maybe sometimes small pocket pair but this is not enough to base your bluff on.
and yes with his entire range bet/call in his shoes would make sense.
i think i would better call turn if you suspect bluff from his side+you have some equity. may be it would be better to try to steal on the river if for example it will be spade and he would check

and another note: in general i don't think it is good idea to implement such bluffs against mediocre player (and we assume he is mediocre cuz he limped UTG). i think your bluff would may be make sense if you know that villain is very good cuz then he really may fold something better cuz your are representing very strong hand, but fish will not "appreciate" your line with reraising turn

you dont need to share your rules with the rest of.

rating: 2/10. you get 5 points for trying, minus 1 for each street i think you played poorly.

Seems really spewy, I don't really know what hands would check the flop on such a draw heavy board and raise the turn, possibly a set but you would bet that on the flop. I just don't think it's necessary here, i mean calling the turn in position and bluffing the river is a much better line than this but still I just think you can fold the turn.

Also iso raising pre isn't a bad idea, granted you have info on villain who limped utg+1 and that he limps weak or seems like a weak player, this would look strong here and it's a much better way to play the hand, take the initiative.

wut is this

ye, agree with the guys above me, your play makes no sense. if you were the first to act, and you limped pre your reraise(that would've been a cr if acting first) would've looked strong; since you could've limped a pocket pre and tried cring it for value on the flop multiway. but because of your position you have to bet your set, two pairs, top pair to protect against draws, and if you had the set, betting in position might've looked like a steal, and would've been better than to slowplay(hate slowplaying). and why would you suddenly want to reraise the turn in position like you're protecting a hand when there's no reason at all to protect it given people showed no interest on two streets, and there's only one card to come instead of two. so what are you representing, and against bad players that doesn't really matter - it only matters what they have, esp when the hand is played like it is, because people overvalue their hands when people start checking. i'd play my hand like yours for value(set, two pairs, draw IP, monster draw, TP) if i knew i could fold when draws hit(if i put him/them on draws), and if this would make hands like AJ call given how the hand was played.

however, poker is situational, and since it's not an all-in pre flop i don't care much for long term play since this obviously won you the pot in the short term and poker tournaments - are only short term. i would like to point out that obviously you are semi bluffing, and that's maybe the reason for why you reraise your gutshot instead of just flatting it. i'd say your opponent if any good had QT in his range and was just checking his OED due to the FD on board multiway. then he stabbed turn called your reraise with odds on turn, hoped stacking you on river. and you were probably thinking along those lines aswell, "it's checked if i reraise it looks strong, if he has anything and i hit my gutshot i stack him, and i have my ace as out". obviously i wouldn't give you any outs other than the 3, since with QT he'd make a str8, you might be able to rep flush, if he didn't have the draw himself, but he's not likely to fold his str8 anyway.

but i'd like to point out, eventhough the bluff won it for you and that i'd probably give you a thumbs up if we were friends and i saw you win a pot knowing you bluffed, it's still bad given how loosely opponents call, you aren't repping anything, and you are putting too much chips into the pot to win almost nothing. bluff with less chips for bigger pots are what's the most ideal imo, here it's the oppsite way around.

Okay, let me give some thoughts.

Let me point btw that i'm not about to argue with the above. I just want to discuss it. I knew when i posted this hand the likelihood was that I was going to get the thumbs-down from people. So...

Yeah i agree that it would have been better to not be ro from the previous hand. Just to confirm, you are agreeing it's better to iso again rather than just fold this hand?

To be fair, the UTG player had folded before i raised, and i think the chances that the SB has a hand that can call a turn raise after they checked both the flop and turn are very slim.

I agree. Knowing how I play there is pretty much 0% chance that i'm not betting on the flop with anything that I don't think is worth betting. But because of...

... I thought that there was still some chance that i could still take the pot away.

So i thought about what type of range might the BB be betting here.

Thanks for having a go at ranging villain. My thoughts were that villain could be betting a range of SD's, FD's, Kx, Jx & all 2p combos. I also thought that villain would still call a raise with most of that range to see the river (not sure now if my raise sizing was too big to keep villains calling range wide enough). I also thought that if he held a hand like Jx or the weaker parts of Kx he can still fold those to a decent size river bet. And I wouldn't be firing on the river if a flush or straight card hit.

Yeah that was kinda the point (or at least, the point with that part of villains range)

This was a factor in my decision to make this bluff. While it's only a little equity it does add to whatever profitability there is in the play. I don't think the ace should be completely discounted as an out. It's prolly not a clean out, but i may also decide not to barrel the river then with showdown value. Also, with any hand villain holds that the ace improves, villain should prolly be leading the river.

So anyways, yeah prolly spew. But i'd prefer to discuss the elements that make a spot a good or bad spot (and the thought processes that go along with them). It's hard to get better at recognizing them if you don't. If anyone still has any thoughts on my above thought process then feel free to still share them.

No it didn't. Villain thought for a little while and then called with J4o. (so yes, the fact that villain can show up here with a random 2p prolly should have been given more weight in my thinking)

i'm not gonna start qouting you since it seems like a lot of work!

this is sadly another example of why limping isn't smart in the first place, eventhough you had a "plan" due to the past experience(AQ hand or whatever). if you give him a draw and esp since he's playing from the BB you can include two random suited cards in his range, which makes him unable to hero call the river, unless he caught a pair along, but of course that would be a hero call aswell. so by including those in his range + QT + suited big cards + everything else(since he could be playing anything), i think that you could atleast bluff river muuuch smaller since there isn't a lot of busted hands that can call. however it turned out he slowplayed his two pairs against you and tank(over 1 second on these stakes is a tank imo) called two pairs there wtf? he's not folding Kx against you, AJ/QJ maybe even JT, a monster draw like QTs he's willing to commit with on the turn since bad players slowplaying stuff stresses out and starts overbetting to catch up with lost value, and that's really it if you ask me. you can only get him off a draw, so in hindsight id count out the ace completely, but as you pointed out you could check behind with showdown value but i wouldn't rely on winning, nor getting anything better than a split given he had an ace. so you have one less 3 because of the flush draw, and you don't have a lot of bluff outs, since if he has QT he calls the T on the river maybe, unless you keep betting that big on the river.

but your betsizing is another thing that i touched in the beginning of this post. bet smaller to rep big hand vs busted draws, but big if you give him something like top pair bad kicker or 2nd pair. you hand just screams bluff in my opinion, and he's lucky he caught two pairs... but what's to expect when you limp pre, really? you are bluffing the big blind, the guy who got to see a free flop, and who has no position whatsoever in this hand and leads after it being checked all the way on flop. he has to have caught something, come on? right, so your play is actually better than it looks, since you might be able to bluff him off with your betsizing and reraise IP on turn. but again, this sounds like the most contradicting post ever; you have to remember you checked flop so he'll overvalue his hand to infinity, it's gr8 play if he folds a hand that beats yours, but has to fold to agression, or if you actually had it - and your slowplay worked.

i would like to add however, i don't care if he folds two pairs, busted draw or anything else - as long as he folds and you win the pot it's a good bluff. only problem is that when people say it's not a good bluff it's because long term you are losing money on that play, and therefor it's not +EV, but as stated in my last post poker is situational, so if he folds there, i approve of your play!

just fold pre. iso vs later pos limp/deeper stacks if you must.

cbet flop, or stab here, with pos, if you wanna rep something, realize you are gonna be/should be vbetting your good hands here, so play bluffs similarly if you want to bluff.

turn, fold as played, check back having bet flop.

obv you have to barrel after raising, i would go a little smaller tho.

didnt read the above post, but the last bit caught my eye; getting a fold is not the way to determine a good bluff, they still need to net chips long term vs the type of player they are against

true +1