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4.40 180, 88 linecheck

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03-24-2008 , 06:04 PM

magodeoz84

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,610

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is 150/300/ante 25 (8 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP2 (t5713)
CO (t6992)
Button (t7281)
SB (t1285)
BB (t9766)
Hero (t4640)
UTG+1 (t5790)
MP1 (t3540)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 8

, 8

.

That's an easy push right? Just want to make sure I'm right...

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03-24-2008 , 06:07 PM

brad2002tj

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 12,058

No, it's not really an easy push. You are so deep it is very marginal and maybe -cev. I would raise t800/fold or call shove depending on read/play poker.

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03-24-2008 , 06:07 PM

magodeoz84

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,610

Deep? I've got an M of 7...

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03-24-2008 , 06:13 PM

brad2002tj

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 12,058

Ah antes. It is a very marginal situation and all 3 options have merit. Folding isn't bad, raising isn't bad, and shoving is probably slighty +cev because of antes. Harrington addresses almost this exact situation in HOH2 and concludes the raise is best FWIW.

According to the pushbot charts 88 is the smallest pp you can profitably open push utg at all 8-handed tables with an m of 7.

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03-24-2008 , 06:44 PM

Francis_MH

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 10,386

Because there is a short SB and table chip leader in BB, I think a raise isn't good because you may get the SB to move at a wide range and BB could call with proper odds. I think you have to push here. With an M of 7 and the situation at hand I think I'd rather fold that raise to like 800 honestly.

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03-24-2008 , 06:53 PM

magodeoz84

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,610

Hm... I don't really like rasing here. If I make it 750 (my standard raise from utg) and one of the bigger stacks pushes, there's 6000 in the pot and I'll have 3900 left. So I get 4:6 on the call. If i put him on JJ-AA or AK, I'm flipping in 16 cases and am crushed in 24. So I'm 50% to win against 42% of his hands and 20% against 58%. That's 21+11,5=32,5% equity against that range.
I'd say against a really tight player I could fold here but If you add AQ to his possible mix, I think you almost have to call.
(I hope the math is at least more or less correct)
I just don't think I could fold if someone pushes in this spot...

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03-24-2008 , 08:13 PM

Machinehead

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 4,050

This is sort of a tough spot. I don't like raising and folding to a push with any hand 15bb deep. So my options would be raise/call, shove, or fold. Folding can't be too bad since I'd fold smaller pairs pretty easily UTG. Shoving does seem slightly +ev too. Raise/call seems bad with the big stack in the bb.

Shove or fold, neither seems like a bad play.

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03-25-2008 , 04:52 PM

pirateboy

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,070

I shove all day every day in a 4.40

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03-25-2008 , 08:06 PM

SpuddzMcoy

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 544

puuush

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03-25-2008 , 08:34 PM

#10

MrMudd76

grinder

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 544

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machinehead

Shoving does seem slightly +ev too.

yes, it is. your horror range (99up) is out there 19% of the time. you should shove. you have the odds. you will be called by worse hands lots of the time (unpaired hands).

oh and it's not easy.. it's actually pretty close....

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03-26-2008 , 02:09 AM

#11

usha

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 574

first time i read this I thought shoving is too much here, but r/f here is so bad and we don't need 88 to do it. it's either shove or fold IMO, but folding looks so weak at 4/180 its a def shove. Maybe its a fold on higher stakes, I'm not sure.

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03-26-2008 , 04:13 AM

#12

MrMudd76

grinder

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 544

i don't think the stakes matter. it's a question of mathematics, mainly.

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