38s: Fold AK here vs Fat Afghan? Really? - MTT Poker Strategy

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38s: Fold AK here vs Fat Afghan? Really?

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03-20-2010 , 03:17 PM

loxxii

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Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 2,283

Poker Stars $35+$3 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t100/t200 Blinds - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN: t795 M = 2.65
SB: t3950 M = 13.17
BB: t2725 M = 9.08
UTG: t2100 M = 7
Hero (MP): t2275 M = 7.58
CO: t1655 M = 5.52

Pre Flop: (t300) Hero is MP with K

UTG raises to t2100 all in, Hero ?

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03-20-2010 , 03:19 PM

bagclip2007

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Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 2,671

i never fold here....

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03-20-2010 , 03:20 PM

juandadi

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 4,030

whats so puzzling???

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03-20-2010 , 03:22 PM

loxxii

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 2,283

Quote:

Originally Posted by bagclip2007

i never fold here....

That's what I was thinking. 300 is a lot of overlay. Wiz hates it.

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03-20-2010 , 03:24 PM

bagclip2007

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 2,671

u should just post a ss of ur wiz

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03-20-2010 , 03:27 PM

Fat Afghan

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 636

looks like a fist-pump shove

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03-20-2010 , 03:29 PM

sippin_criss

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 11,778

if you want to exclude aa and kk it gets pretty close but if i saw him shove similar spots with those hands before i'd just fold (easier said than done), the whole setup is pretty awful for a call here. it's not like he's shoving A8.

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03-20-2010 , 03:45 PM

juandadi

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 4,030

Quote:

Originally Posted by juandadi

whats so puzzling???

Quote:

Originally Posted by loxxii

That's what I was thinking. 300 is a lot of overlay. Wiz hates it.

yaawwnnn

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03-20-2010 , 05:11 PM

Monkey Banana

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 40,103

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Afghan

looks like a fist-pump shove

this because

Quote:

Originally Posted by sippin_criss

you want to exclude aa and kk

I'm guessing.

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03-20-2010 , 06:08 PM

#10

simpledude16

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 587

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monkey Banana

this because

I'm guessing.

excluding AA and KK seems really bad

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03-20-2010 , 06:27 PM

#11

Monkey Banana

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 40,103

I'm pretty mystified why the guy himself thinks this would be a fistpump if not?

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03-20-2010 , 06:50 PM

#12

juandadi

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 4,030

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monkey Banana

I'm pretty mystified why the guy himself thinks this would be a fistpump if not?

his shoving range is probly 77+AJ+...

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03-20-2010 , 06:53 PM

#13

Deurdy

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Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 10,646

Quote:

Originally Posted by juandadi

his shoving range is probly 77+AJ+...

That would be sorta my guess, but would not be surprised if 44-66 were also in the range.

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03-20-2010 , 07:29 PM

#14

loxxii

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 2,283

This is at 8% = 66+, AJ+, ATs+

Breakeven is about 15% = 33+, A8+, A4s+, KTs+

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03-20-2010 , 07:44 PM

#15

Deurdy

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Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 10,646

Quote:

Originally Posted by loxxii

This is at 8% = 66+, AJ+, ATs+

Breakeven is about 15% = 33+, A8+, A4s+, KTs+

other ranges are overcalling ranges right?

fwiw nash is giving quite some different results, but it also assumes him shoving wider.

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03-21-2010 , 02:47 AM

#16

Skitz0Frenik

adept

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 796

easy call /thread

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03-21-2010 , 09:47 AM

#17

loxxii

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 2,283

First, you can maybe exclude AA, but I think shoving KK is best.

I personally am shoving both in that spot. You just stack people more often that way.

If this thread was a waste of time, then ICM is obsolete, sippin and I are idiots, and none of us can benefit from looking at standard spots more closely.

None of these things are true, so please stop it with the cutesy replies and explain why you KNOW this is a call 100% of the time in spite of ICM.

If you think I am using Wiz incorrectly, please type the hand into yours and tell us what you found.

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03-21-2010 , 09:50 AM

#18

loxxii

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Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 2,283

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deurdy

other ranges are overcalling ranges right?

fwiw nash is giving quite some different results, but it also assumes him shoving wider.

I think overcalling ranges may be slightly tighter.

How wide does nash assume he is shoving?

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03-21-2010 , 09:58 AM

#19

Deurdy

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Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 10,646

Quote:

Originally Posted by loxxii

I think overcalling ranges may be slightly tighter.

How wide does nash assume he is shoving?

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03-21-2010 , 01:09 PM

#20

7castle

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Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 2,161

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skitz0Frenik

easy call /thread

Agreed. Kicking off FA is a great bonus.

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03-21-2010 , 03:00 PM

#21

tastychicken

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,775

those nash ranges are so ????? for utg 6-handed at 10bb

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03-21-2010 , 05:14 PM

#22

loxxii

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 2,283

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7castle

Agreed. Kicking off FA is a great bonus.

True, but does that argument hold when you are on the bad side of a race against his range? Then again, there is the overlay?

A lot of factors to consider here. That's what Wiz is for, no?

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03-21-2010 , 05:15 PM

#23

Deurdy

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Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 10,646

Quote:

Originally Posted by tastychicken

those nash ranges are so ????? for utg 6-handed at 10bb

Yeah I'm not saying those seem realistic to me, but they do give some food for thought of course. I know I would be much nittier in that spot UTG.

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03-24-2010 , 12:27 PM

#24

jjyykk

now YugiohPro

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 9,399

Afghan is never jamming worse Aces here except *maybe* AQs.

So that makes this a super standard fold.

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03-24-2010 , 12:32 PM

#25

ilya

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 9,003

Yeah I fold there. In the blinds I call.

P.S. Oh good, he IS a reg. So calling him with KQ when he shoves 6xbb in CO is fine.

Last edited by ilya; 03-24-2010 at 12:54 PM.

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